How True Donald quite a few of my extended family existed thanks to Barbours and also Stewarts , Donald Im not sure how I arrived back at this old item, probably thanks to Barney but you make a very valid point ,Regards Ted

Certaintly they are much happier,, Aldene, not having to get out of bed in the Wintertime & run to work in all weathers, (some in bare feet) have to work hard, get half hour for a "lunch" then work hard again until quitting time, for very little money & on very little food. Anything would make your happier than that lifestyle.

Hope someone makes a film someday about the children in Mills & the after effects on their lives. Even I have a indignation in me about my forbearers & the tales I heard of child abuse & little Hitlers. Hypocrisy of the first order.! These employers were supposedly the pillars of society in Lisburn, with monuments built in their honour. Where are the monuments to the children who built their Empire.!

Pat

Pat,
The monuments of the children who worked in factories are non other than ourselves, their descendants. Monuments of stone are frivolous. Hopefully our children will be our monuments.
Jimmy

Thanks Jimmy,

Never considered that fact, hope we do them justice.

Donald,

I concede all the points you make, remembering they came much later, when public opinion turned against child abuse in the workplace.

It does not alter the fact that it occured for years & was the cause of many deaths of young children, who were totally unsuited to the conditions of hard work with little nourishment or proper rest.

Does anything excuse child abuse either in the workplace or any other circumstance.?

Pat

Pat
Please bear in mind that the mill owners did not go around driving the children into the mills, it was the parents or guardians of these abused children who sent them into the mills under-age. You might say that their parents needed the money they earned, Why? To help feed the large families and here we are back again at responsibility, education and birth control!
donald

Aldene my mum went there but as I said she did not talk too much about it. And yes she too worked in the Mill.........bare feet and all. They all worked hard for our future. God bless them all.

Donald,


So the mill owners did everyone a great favour by accepting child labour.? Did they let children attend full time at Hilden shool if they wanted, or had they to work half the time in the Mill to be accepted as a pupil?

Like today, not everyone had large families. Did the Mothers & Fathers think so little of their children that they drove them into the workplace.? Not for money as everyone got a piece of paper, instead of wages, to purchase goods in the employer's shop.

Nowadays the same thing is happening in India, Mexico, & the other countries, where child labour still exists, even tho' contraception is freely available.

Responsibility rests with the State, education & birth control was not provided for the poor. Now that it is, the work is not available, it is taken abroad for cheap labour & higher profits.

Pat

P.S. Note that these things are happening in countries where democracy is supposed to exist.?

PAT




.

Hi Sarah, Like your own Mum, my Mother did not talk much about being a 'half-timer' from the age of 12. I know her family lived in Longstone Sreet, there were 9 children in the family so I suppose money was in short supply. My maternal Grandfather was a master Joiner in his day and was responsible for making the Grand Staircase in the Titanic. His name was Sam Crone, I expect Jim's late Father would have known the family.
But I digress, can you imagine sending a 12 year old child today to walk from Longstone Street to Hilden to work and school? Doesn't bear thinking about, does it? Thank God those days are long gone in our part of the world anyhow. But children are still being exploited in other countries, especially China. I once read a book 'Harry Woo', shocking true story, and since then I try to stay away from anything made in China, difficult though it is. Regards

Dear Aldene,on the 20th November 1948,a Saturday,Iwas13yrs.old and workimg as a soap-boy in a Barbershop in Lisburn.As men were paid on Friday night,Barbershops were busy on Saturday,Razor-blades were not very good,and men came for a proper shave.A call came from the Lagan Valley Hospital to the shop,A body was at the morgue,which needed shaving for presenting to his family,as was the custom at that time.Frank being the only dispensible person in the shop was sent to the hospital.The corpse in question had a shooting accident,the usual thing, crawling through a hedge,mud lodged in the gun barrels, on sighting his quarry Bang! the barrels exploded,killing him .He was was clean and well bandaged when I dealt with him,and he looked great later. during my work I listened to the Wedding of the Princess Elizabeth of England to The Prince Philip of Greece on BBC.Radio.I received one Pound and a generous glass of Bushmills for my efforts.The pound went to my boss of course.The taste for Bushmills remains.No one thought it anything special at the time. Interesting times in the 40's....Frank

Frank, You have your dates mixed up, Princess Elizabeth and Prince Phillip were married in November 1947 not 48, I always remember as I was in South Africa at the time on HMS Nigeria. Just seems like yesteday.?? Mauri

Sarah, The proper name for the Raggety Bab was "Lisburn Free School". I used to go to the Sunday School there for a couple of years, I think in later years it was turned into a school for disabled or retarded children. Mauri

I remember the raggedy bap very well Mr Mayne was the head master then, i always got him mixed up with McMinn the school attendance officer a real B if ever there was one jumping on us for being absent from class

Hi Barney, "Mc Minn" There is a blast from the past he really put the fear of God in you, and I agree whole heartly in your discription of him, if he caught you mitching he pulled you back up to the school, I think even the teachers held him in contempt,
Regards Ted

Barney, Re Ronnie Watkins do you know anything of him ? its a long time from I saw him he use to hang around the bookies in Antrim St thats the last time I saw him, I use to deleiver fish to BJs next door and I was able to work him and odd fish supper and I think at that period he was dossing down in one of the old houses in Pump Lane, there was always something likeable about him,he didn't get to many breaks in life, I wonder is he still alive,
Regards Ted

Hi Barney, can you recall any names from your class/classes. Was there just one classroom for all the children??

Sarah

Ted, Barney. We had a kid at the Central who took a swing at McMinn with a cane whilst in the Principal's office and then took off out the door with both adults after him they didn't catch him for a couple of days and then only after his Dad brought him in. Mauri

Ted, Is the Ronnie Watkins the kid who lived in the bungalow beside Lavery's Land opposite Lismara and Belfoir Terrace's. If I remembr correctly he was quite a handful for his parents at an early age and the last I heard about him was he was in the Crumlin Road gaol. Mind you I'm talking about a long time ago. Mauri

Quite correct Mauri! Frank

Donald,When Fr. Macnamara came to the Boys School,it was a really big Deal.One upstairs classroom had all the desks stacked in one corner,the floor was scrubbed,and a roaring fire in the Hearth,a semi-circular line was chalked on the floor so that a full class faced the Priest,A Prize of 2/6 was given to the boy who got the most correct answers.No excuses were accepted for missing school that day!!....Frank

Yes Mauri
His family were customers in our grocers shop I think they lived next door to the Muldoon's just across from your house. The houses were knocked down to build the shops that are there now. Every time we had a break-in in the shops the police always said Ronnie Watkins is out again. He only broke in to get something to eat and was never prosecuted for entering our premises.
Jim

Hi Mauri, I would say we were talking about the same person, Ronnie just couldn't stay out of trouble the story was told one Monday morning Mr Chittick's son opened the shop and Ronnie walked out and bid him Good Morning with a parcel under his arm and walked on up Bow St, he also had a sister called Bernadett I think she went to London, Regarding Mc Minn I would admire the kid that had the gall to take a swipe at him, reading Barney you realize there were real cruel people we came into contact with in our youth, How things have changed though not all for the better,
Regards Ted

Barney Donald & Frank
Frank you discribe Brendan Fitspatricks room exactly on the morning of the exam, however on the morning in question I was in line with the rest of class and if you remember along the back wall there was a large long picture that ran along the wall depicting great icons of history and of course I am gaping at this and didnt hear Mc Namara call my name or the question , well what I got after that I still remember, I thought sure I was for excomunacation I was told I had let the school down etc Memories!
Regards Ted

Hi!Barney,I never called you Barney when I lived in Lisburn,Barney was your father.Eddie McCavana was a vicious man with the cane,but he was great at Music,Playimg the organ in the Chapel and trying to get us poor sods to sing in tune,a hopeless task.We had a Mr.fitzmaurice for a while,and I think the ladies name was Miss McAleese,I was very young but thought she was gorgeus,she let us get away with murder,not like Miss O'Boyle If I remember there were about 240 Boys at the School,you will recall behind Mr.Fitzsimmons desk was a little Blackboard where he chalked up the Daily numbers for the school,I liked it there,not that I was in the bad books too often.You will recall putting the 1/3 pint bottles around the heating pipes to thaw by Midmorning,our treat!Hubert Blakely,Tom Smylie,Brendan Hodges,Brian Fitzsimmons Tough being the Headnasters Son,I was one of his few Friends.Why don't you throw up a few a names for us to chew over.....Frank

Mauri,Mr Mc Minn was a former Police Sergeant,who left the Police Force in dubious circumstances,He put the fear of God into many Children in Lisburn. I thought I saw him smile once,but later realised I was mistaken.When I was A student at St.Malachy's College in Belfast,a similar incident arose,Gerry Curran(son of Curran Cinemas)was up on a desk changing a light bulb when an unpopular teacher came in and with out any enquiries started belting Gerry with a cane,Gerry jumped down and flattened this Phys-ed guy who was taken to the Mater Hospital,he survived.Gerry was a hero ever after....Frank

Yiz'll all know that I got a laugh reading this stuff. Pleas do not be offended, but I wonder why the hell I never got the half crown for the catechism answers, because, honestly, I knew it from front to back. I still know most of it, though I no longer believe a word.
Ronnie Watkins may have broken into Jim's place for food, but he also broke into the chapel for the candlesticks.
Miss McAleese left the year I started, followed shortly by Miss O'Boyle. Not my fault. As far as I know. Miss O'Boyle gave me a picture that was hanging on the wall. My ma was delighted that I was teacher's pet. Jaze!
Brendan (Barney) must be the same age, or maybe a year older than I am. I knew the boys and teachers, but, as I said previously, I started school late. In fact, I was never taught by Bertie, as I didn't even get that far up the ladder in school.
Some other priest, or it may have been macNamara, came to question us on the Irish language.

Ted, Is the Ronnie Watkins you mention the kid who lived in the bungalow beside lavery's lane opposite Lismara and Belfoir terrace's. If I remember correctly he was quite a handful for his parents and the last time I heard of him he was in the Crumlin road gaol though that was many many years ago. Mauri