Quite a controversial debate going on across Canada now re the wearing of the Niqab by Muslim women. What started it was a Muslim woman who was taking out Canadian Citizenship wanted to wear the Niqab at the offical ceremoney, the powers that be namely our Conservative government said no you must take it off during the ceremony so the lady went to court and a lower court ruled against her however she appealed to the Supreme Court and they ruled in her favour right away so that she could obtain citizenship and vote in the upcoming election.
Now the conservative party has stated that if they are re elected they will bring out legislation to prohibit the wearing of the Niqab in any Government job. Personally myself I think the Government is out to lunch and should not be trying to tell people what they should wear especially in a country where we supposdly have freedom of religion.
What do you think. Mauri

I think Stephen Harper is correct in disallowing the niqab for Canadian Citizenship ceremonies. How can officials be sure that these applicants are who they say they are. Can you imagine these niqab wearers producing a driving license at a traffic stop. How could the poor cop positively identify the driver when all he can do is compare big brown eyes.
Then there is the inroads made to our way of life by the Sikhs, they even changed the dress code of the RCMP and we were dumb enough to remain silent. Imagine Sikhs being allowed on an aircraft with their ceremonial kirpans stuck down their stockings, not sure if that is allowed but it will probably follow.
I say if they want to come to Canada then they must accept our established customs and not try to make us adapt to theirs. Political correctness be ****ed.
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Even on this I have an opinion. I feel sure I would disagree with 40 on many subjects, but on this one I wholeheartedly agree. Bloody cheek! When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

I think when someone decides to live in a chosen country, they must abide by that country's rules. I am not in favour of women having their faces covered anyhow, particularly in this day and age. When people visit Saudi Arabia and such places, they must not take alcoho lin public places and must dress appropriately. As Dabbler says, "when in Rome, etc.".

Forty Coats, Citizenship applicants wearing the Niqab are required to identify themselves immediatley prior to the offical ceremony, the Consertatives are playing this up to try and gain votes in the election as they know they are on the way out (HOPEFULLY). Also as a matter of interest Sikhs are now permitted to wear turbans in the Royal Australian Navy and also in the Toronto Police Service


Ann, I would have thought that you of all people would have defended the right of a woman to wear what she wants and not to be dictated too by Government officials whose brains are you know where.???

Dabbler, You too surprise me siding with the Government. Mauri

Forgot to mention that in numerous police forces in the UK Sikhs are permitted to wear turbans and why not its part of their religion. In my working days I spent a lot of time with Sikhs, I only knew one who wouldn't wear the turban which is the equal of a Christian not wanting to go to church. Mauri

Mauri
I know nothing about your government, so I would not choose to support or oppose them, but I think that people should not disguise themselves. I believe that Germaine Greer would agree.

Mauri. These women are obliged to cover their faces because that is the way their husbands want them. The men don,t cover their faces, though. My opinion on this has got absolutely nothing to do with any government laws except the sexist laws in their own country. Women there are treated disgracefully. I suppose nothing can be done about it except when they enter a new society. I hope the law in Canada is upheld and these women get the opportunity to live as they would like without fear of recriminations from their families.

Mauri, if not Conservative, what Party would you vote for. Surely not NDP who with their Union affiliations would have us in debt for years regardless of length of their stay in power. BC is just recovering from the effects of the provincial wing of this party. On the Island we paid at least 50% more for our new Hwy 19 where the NDP government would only accept bids from unionized contractors. In an attempt to make up for budget overruns they decided to have two sets of traffic lights instead of overpasses on this expressway. Now we have a 120 KPH highway broken up with traffic lights !

Liberals, led by Pierre Trudeau's son, no thanks. I lived in Alberta where Pierre forced Alberta to accept less than world prices for petroleum, the provinces main export. I worked for the petroleum service industry and our company struggled to keep afloat during this period.

Who is left, I mean politically left, the Green Party who are very aptly named.
My political views are formed by my personal experiences and my party of choice does not always fall in line with my views.
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Thanks for the info and opinions. 40, you have started me thinking about politics. The Conservative government here in Britain seems to be on the right track towards economic recovery, so Banks and shareholders should soon be smiling again. The emergence of a new left wing leader, Jeremy Corbyn, has, however, raised conjecture about the best method of government. Should politicians in power support industrialists and entrepreneurs, or should they take greater control, and be more involved in hands-on government? Most working people,despite a very strong wish to retain our outstanding National Health Service, tend to hold on to an illusion? of our Military position among World leaders, and are prepared to suffer to preserve that image. Giving up nuclear weapons would undoubtedly release billions to spend on Healthcare and poverty, but would leave us open to possible abuse from such as North Korea - unlikely as such threat appears at this time.
Mad thoughts as I await my next few hundred quid pension to arrive in my bank!

Stan, I had typed a long reply to your comments re voting NDP etc but much to my disgust was spammed. Yes I vote NDP and have done for many years. As a former Natonal Representative of what is now the second largest union in Canada I seen too many injustices to the workers committed by sleazy companies and executives. I have worked both sides of the fence as you will be surprised to hear that I was in a Mangement position when I was recruited by the Union.

A prime example of what a sleezy company will do is what is going on in Hamiliton Ontario right now, US Steel purchased Stelco the Canadian steel company several years ago and immediatley laid off X hundred workers as they slowed production because they couln'd compete with china Japan etc. Now they have gone to court and obtained an order to cancel all Medical befifits for their retirees and next January their pensions will be stopped even though for a good number of years they had contributed to them. I am convinced that the dumb judge was paid under the table. This was possible because a Consertative Government some years back under the idiot Mike Harris cancelled the successor rights clause in the Labour Relations Act.

By the way there are least five consertative Senators in Ontario under investigation h for fraud in connection with their expenses and one now undergoing a long trial for the same thing, his trial has been adjourned untill next month. Have a Great Thanksgiving. Mauri

Mauri, I was unaware of the US Steel affair, I do agree that if the workers had paid for anticipated pensions and benefits then they are fully entitled to same. I am aware of some other scandals involving the Conservative Party.
The individuals involved should be punished and that goes for any crooked politicians.

My first contact with Union Workers in BC was my neighbour who worked in the in-feed line at McBlo's paper mill in Port Alberni. He came home one evening and proudly boasted that he had shut down the entire line for 8 hours by deliberately jamming up a log pulper. He said he was regarded as hero of the hour by his mates as they stood around doing nothing while others repaired his sabotage.

My next experience with these people came when I started work for the same mill and was inspecting a mill crew's work during a scheduled shutdown. I talked to a welder who was boasting that over the long weekend he had welded only 4" of quarter inch fillet weld during this entire period. Most of his booked time was double time and a half.

Paper was at a premium in those days but I wondered how the company would survive in a competitive market. Attitudes like those I encountered in the BC workplace were new to me, being used to the hard competition I had left in Alberta. Hope your workers at Stelco had a better work ethic than those I encountered at the mill.

This will give you some idea of how I formed my opinion about unionized labour.

Give a slave golden chains and he will consider himself an employee at upper management level!

Some of us forget our backgrounds and also how employees were exploited and considered lower than animals by some employers. For example those workers who carried home the corpse of their fellow worker who was killed at work wages were deducted for the time they were absent. One once said a mule is worth more than a worker as he can hire another worker but must buy a mule. If unions did not exist we must invent them. If Firms and Companies are 99% organized as members of employers associations, why shouldn´t employees do this also? It was the American Government who, after WW11 here in Germany re-introduced trade unions and in 1951 the Montan Mitbestimmungsgesetz which gave unions and employees a voice in the running of the company they were employed in.

Donald, I am all for trade unions. I was a member of NIPSA during my working life and I must say on one occasion I was very grateful when I needed a rep, successfully I might add. Workers needs to have unions, maybe unfortunately, but that's the way it is. Firms would get away with murder without unions. UP THE UNIONS!!!!

Stan, Here is a letter to the Toronto Star re the subject and is typical of a whole bunch of letters in the same vein.

We have a Prime Minister who has sunk to the lowest level imaginable, makeing snide and not so subtle remarks about "the other", the one who is to be feared and pushed away beyond our borders if possible
The issue of the niqab is a manufactered evil, irrelevant poisoning of our Canadian dialogue. It appeals to the same ignorant prejudice that led to the locking up of Japanese Canadians in internment camps and the rejection of Jewish refugees more than 75 years ago, the denigration of the "famine Irish" who came to our shores in the 1850s seeking a better life,and that condems First Nations men, women and children to inadequate housing,water resources and education today. To re-elect a prime minister who uses these shameful methods is to turn our backs on all hope for what this country can be.

And I couldn't agree more. Mauri

Stan, Of course there are bad apples in the Union just as there are many bad apples in Mangement,but in my experience the vast majority of Union workers only wanted to do a good job for a reasonable wage and benifits though in a work force of thousands obviously the odd exceptions. I once near had a fist fight with a Union member in a Toronto company who had a terrible record for attendance, constantly late and taking days off and despite suspensions, fines etc he continued doing the same thing untill the Company fired him, he filed a grievance and wanted to go to Arbitration, when I investigated his record I told him to forget it as he had no chance of getting his job back.He filed a complaint about me with the Ontario Labour Relations Board which after a hearing was thrown out.
On the other side of the fence I could tell you stories about several Mangement types I knew who were let go because of excessive time off and fiddling with Company funds and one in particular who went to Gaol for a very long time. Have a Great Day. Mauri

Mauri, our political views are entirely different, each reflecting different sides and each reflecting our life experience, let us agree to disagree.

You originally asked for opinions of the wearing of the niqab.

I can not see why any country should allow prospective immigrants to settle on their shores and expect their new country of choice to change either their laws or customs to accommodate their own beliefs. It's not as if they were forced to come to Canada. Perhaps if they were dissatisfied with their lot in their old country, they should have chosen a country with laws and customs to which they could adapt to in good conscience.
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hi there,
mauri i flew down today from gold coast to melbourne, be here for a while. it was 29c in both places, a bit unusual. re the niquib, our new prime minister malcolm turnbull was having a speech and it involved people from elsewhere wanting changes. he said, we have our laws and rules here , if you don't like them feel free to leave. good answer

I like many before me chose to come to Canada and become a Canadian citizen I follow the rules of citizenship,if I had worn sun glasses at the ceromery I would have been told to remove them.
yes sihks wear turbans but ther faces are not covered.
people want to change Canada to be what they think it should be.
let them stay but do not let them become citizens.

Agreed Stan, Politics is never a good subject to discuss among friends, and I have been retired now some 22 years so am somewhat out of touch???.

Tom, The Australian Government should be the last one to tell anybody to fit in or leave, the way they treated the Aboriginals over the years. Mauri

Agree Mauri, let's move on.
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