Ok... I have a question... and I am definitely not trying to start a fight or say one site or bit of information is wrong and the other right... just looking for some deeper understanding into rune meanings...
I have a pair of runes from a reading that I did the other day... the two runes were the runes for course of action to take in regard to the question... the rune pair was Raidho Converse and Thurisaz Reversed...
Now according to this site... Riadho Converse can mean ... secret mission... and that fits my situation well... and Thurisaz Reversed means Evil may be overcome... an exhortation to proceed the danger is slight...
The issue I have is a lot of other sights have a far darker meaning for Thurisaz... for instance this definition for Thurisaz Reversed:
THURISAZ reversed indicates much the same thing as it does upright. The main difference here is that either you
or the individual you are reading for will not wish to heed the advice and information offered. You are set on this
course of action and are very full of yourself, unwilling to accept any advice which is not generated from your brain
and your experience.
When this rune is reversed, the consequences of blindly following your own path are even worse than they are
when the rune is right side up.
It presages a time when your luck runs out, and you will need to muster much caution and act with circumspection
regarding your situation at present. Any hasty decision is bound to cause regrets since it is brought about through
a weakness in yourself. You will deceive even yourself about your motives at this time, and continuing on in this
fashion will only create new problems, ones fare more sever than the ones acting on your life at present.
Sometimes THURISAZ reversed indicates that you feel threatened by an individual that you perceive as weaker or
subordinate to you in some sense. Look for the rune KENAZ reversed int eh reading as a signal that this person is
about to come to the forefront.
Reference: A Practical Guide To The Runes by Lisa Peschel
So this site is saying... GO ahead with the secret mission the danger is slight...
Other information is saying... WHoaaa... slow down... don't proceed with the secret mission... you will get yourself in huge trouble...
Like I said... not trying to suggest that you the runemaker of this site is wrong... not in anyway... but just curious as to why your definition of THurisaz is so light compared to a lot of definitions that I have read for THurisaz reversed...
Am I missing something?
AS I have just been saying on another post, interpretation in runic divination is a subjective art. It depends as much on the subconscious of the diviner as it does on the fall of the runes. You must make up your own mind which meaning you wish to ascribe to Thurisaz reversed and see how it fits the entire result.
All I will say is that I am disappointed to find myself compared with (or even outranked) by Ms Peschel on whose writings I have commented elsewhere on this forum.
Some how I knew I was going to be doing something naughty by bringing in other meanings from different websites...
Honestly you have to understand I am wet behind the ears and just getting started on my journey but as in all things in life... spend a great deal of time hunting for the truth... and this is no exception...
Yes I know that it has to be gut intuition... but how do you seperate out your fears, and other emotions when you are dealing with the unknown... to have faith in your own intuition... your own understanding of things that are hidden from you... in regard to this very rune reading... there is actually a lot going on that could be jepordized in making a wrong choice... and so deciding on a course of action based upon just my intuition is hard... especially since I am so knew to the runes...
You see... in regard to my own intuition I have come to realize that often it is not correct... or at least only partially correct... correct enough to know when something is wrong... but not correct enough to figure it out... and thus the wish to proceed down a right path... an honorable path... and thus the continual search for wisdom... and knowledge...
Once again... sorry for bringing someone else's work into your site... it was not meant as an insult only a question...
Regardless... I had already been searching for the truth... had already started down that path... and so am already on it... just want to make sure that this is not actually a warning to freeze the course of action that I chose to undertake...
Respectfully a studen...
Try breaking your issue down into smaller packets one element of the problem at a time. You can then use single runes for yes/no answers: 2 runes for cause/effect or action/result; 3 runes for past/present/future or situation/action/result. The interpretations will be simpler to read and perhaps easier to interpret. You will get staged clarification of the elements of your query which you can base on the chronology, the person(s) involved, or progression from inception to conclusion.
When using single runes for yes/no answers... do you draw from all 24 runes... or select two runes... a negative and a positive and just use a positive rune for yes... and a negative rune for no...
I know that there are no real negative and positive runes... but I just meant... do you draw from all 24 runes or select two runes and draw from them... either would work I guess... think I would probably go with all 24 but could still lead to confusion for me... hmmm...
I think right now I am over thinking this... need to just relax and take a chill pill.... lol...
Good idea - take your chill pill. I find a drop of Scotch does the same trick.
I draw from all 24 runes. The meaning itself taken in context of the query will tell you whether it's a yes or a no.
I never tried drawing from 2 runes. It sounds to me a bit like tossing a coin. Would you choose them in advance like Wunjo for Yes and Hagalaz for no? Or just pick two at random and hope to hell you haven't got Wunjo and Gebo?
Well that is why I was leaning more towards drawing from all 24 myself... if I was going to draw from two I would pick them out before hand... but like you said... might as well flip a coin...
Thanks for your help
HI, Stephen, hi, Bob,
Gosh, seems like things have really gotten into the deep end the past couple of days about ... "meanings"? Well, Stephen, I'm also new to the runes, so don't feel alone. I don't think you're missing anything. To me, the runes are multi-faceted, meaning they have many uses, divination being one of them, but as Bob said, it's a subjective art. So, really, ultimately, it's your life and it's up to you.
I'm glad the discussions have taken this turn. Thanks, Stephen. Anyway, I gotta go, and Bob, about the Lisa thing... hush, there-there, never mind, it's alright, Oz, he didn't know( ) forgive him, please, or you can forgive me on his behalf
Hopefully, my computer will be working soon. Anyway, Stephen, Bob, everyone take care.
LOL. appeasement isn't necessary although the thought is appreciated. Stephen should - as should we all - take input from all the sources he has available and make his own judgements about what is useful and what is not. My post was not intended to criticize his efforts.
I am particularly ******* about the Peschel book because amongst other things she makes a comment about using varnish on runes which is not only inaccurate and defamatory of my products but also unsupported by any evidence. If she had expressed this as an opinion I would have had no argument, but it stands as a statement of fact, and that rankles.
My ire is directed at the author and publisher, not at Stephen or any of her readers.
Hah! Wouldn't you know it, I have fallen into my own trap for unacceptable language!
The ******* was a word intended to express my discomfort: a word one might use to describe a hedgehog or a cactus, but the first 5 letters equate to a pointed euphemism for the male organ. Hope you can figure it out from that.
How's it goin' over there? Probably, night-time now where you are-- Saturday night. It's still day-time for me over here. I know it's cold over there; one of my uncles called last week. So, anyway, I just think that it's pretty neat that right now we're in the same day, just at different times. It's still day-time over here.
"*******"-- runes if ever I saw. Took me a while to decipher, but much knowledge has been gleaned.
Anyway, about "meanings", again. This is just how I've been goin' about it. Basically, I use a kinda "ABC" "1,2,3" approach, in the sense that I'm sure it must have been taught to children much in the way we learned the alphabet and numerals. Maybe there was even a song for it, maybe not a variation on "Twinkle, twinkle little star", but with whatever music and melodies they had at the time. Who knows? But that's another thing. Anyway, with finding "meanings" to the runes, I take each rune and... like Fehu, for example, which means "cattle/wealth", I'd think," What does 'Wealth ' mean to me?" The energy and circulation of Wealth and all aspects of it-- of having wealth and of not having Wealth. Galdr like like a mantra as I meditate on the rune's meaning to me. Fill myself with the vibration as I say the rune. What Inner-wealth do I have? Do I share what I have with others? ... and... whoa, this is taking more time than I thought, and I realize that I'm not able to get the fullness of what I'm saying across just yet.
Well, I try again later. But I'm really glad, Stephen brought up this whole thing about meaning.
Wow - this is a deep discussion.
Can I jump in or are there porcupines and cacti to beware of?
Just a thought on the personal intuition and interpretation regarding the runes. I've found ( from my vast archive of experience achieved in less than a year..) that the best way to err in a reading is to second guess yourself. Usually it seems that the first thought, image, feeling etc that comes to mind is the right one and should be applied to the issue as is rather than changing the understanding to fit the issue. Gosh that sounds very zen.
As for the different rune meanings (and this is for Stephen as I'm way behind Petrus and Bob) what really worked for me was to use the root meanings of the runes and advice from the pros (like Bob) and write your own collection of meanings that merge the general translations as well as your own impressions.
Well that probably didn't clear anything up but hey - I'm here to learn too......
Come on in, the water's fine. Don't worry about any porcupines, hedgehogs, or cacti; just don't step on any of---> "*******" <--- these things, and do not, I repeat, do not "varnish" anything in the presence of the RuneMaker.
So, yes, we are talking about meanings. What you said is pretty much how I've been going about it as a beginner.
payden: and what really worked for me was to use the root meanings of the runes and advice from the pros (like Bob) and write your own collection of meanings that merge the general translations as well as your own impressions.
Here are some notes to myself from my notebook regarding how I've been learning the runes(as a beginner). I hope you can make some sense of it. Here goes:
LEARNING HOW TO READ
START WITH ONE RUNE
-- learn literal meaning
-- learn rune IN CONTEXT of Norse culture/mythology
--MAKE ASSOCIATIONS TO YOUR OWN LIFE
-- find common themes from your life's experiences that have similar qualities, traits, feelings, expressions of the rune
2. THEN TAKE TWO
RUNES AND MAKE
with your experiences
see how they relate
3. now take three runes and do the same in all possible combinations
-- learn Futhark in order + pairs + aetts
-- make stories
OK. That's a look into a beginner's notebook. But like you, payden, I learn the basics, listen to the pro's(like, Bob), apply it my life where appropriate and applicable, and continue to be open to learning and growth. I'm still learning and I'd like to think I'm growing.
So, I guess that's about it. I really respect Stephen for asking his "simple" questions. Fully opened up himself to the risk of ridicule for his quest for knowledge. Very brave, indeed. I don't believe in "stupid" questions. There's a saying, "the only stupid question is the one you never asked." When I first heard that, I thought it was kinda strange. But as time went on, I understood what it meant.You may ask questions that may seem stupid to some, but if you never ask it, you'll never know the answer and end up feeling stupid for it. That's just me. Do you understand what I mean?
I can't resist adding tuppence worth of homespun philosphy. My Dad used to say: "A stupid question is one to which you already know the answer, becuase chances are you'll get a different answer from the one you thought you knew." Now THAT's confusing . . .
A tuppence worth was alot of money at one time. I'm far too young to remember that. It's mythical, almost. I had to ask my Mom what a "tuppence" was. First I had asked about a farthing. She said it was 1/4 of a penny." So, what's a 'tuppence'?" I asked. "Two pennies" was the reply. She asked me to hand her a sheet of paper, tore a piece of it and rolled it into a little cone. " This," she said," is about a farthing's worth of salt, or a penny's worth of sugar."
I had asked about the farthing because I've heard the expression " isn't worth a farthing" before and wondered what a farthing was. So, with my new-found knowledge I say, " So, hol' on; a farthing was worth something, so why the expression?" Then it was explained to me that it means that what was given didn't add up to the least monetary unit. So, a tuppence worth is a whole heap a' money, as far as I see it. And when I read what your Dad said, I'm like, My God, Bob, how old were you when he told you such a thing? And have you figured it out yet? Believe me, my head is reeling and feeling really heavy and weighted to one side as I ponder you Father's deep and mystical kenning. So heavy.
Anyway, take care, see you later. Be well, be good.
P.S. Good thing he didn't give you a pound at a time.
I used tuppence as the Brit equivalent of the American expression "2 cents worth" meaning not worth a lot, as you figured out. Tuppence was worth about 1p when British currency was decimalised in 1970, and it would be virtually worthless today.
I was sitting outside a bar getting drunk with a bunch of Russian Navy sailors in the Black Sea port of Varna, Bulgaria one night in the early '60s. None of us could speak a word of the others' language so we communicated in signs. One guy took out his small change to show me what it looked like and was demonstrating the value of each piece. When he came to the tiny 1 Kopek piece he looked around to find something of that value, gave up and flung it out to sea! When it was my turn I did the same thing with a bronze British ha'penny much to his surprise as the ha'penny was almost as big as a modern 10p piece, about 4 times the size of a Kopek
But I do I remember farthings. When I was a little kid I was often sent down to the bakers for a loaf of bread with the price of fourpence farthing burning a hole in my pocket. They were little copper coins about the size of a modern 5p or a US dime. They had the head of Victoria or Edward VIII or George V on the front and a sparrow on the back. Heres a picture of one I kept as a souvenir.
Hey, ask your Mum if she knows what a groat was.
Ok then more with the homespun philosophy, even though I'm coming in late behind the currency debate..
There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers. Although I like Bob's dad's definition of a stupid question.
On the currency side we live next to Zimbabwe - they don't do cheques there because the value will have decreased too much by the time the cheque clears. Latest stroke of genius was to knock 15 zeroes off the currency to combat inflation. So trust me, tuppence, two cents, farthings etc are serious capital investments over here... A little general trivia on top of runelore for you.
On the runelore side, a question for Petrus, any advice on where to start with fitting the runes into Norse beliefs? I really like that idea but I'm not sure where to start. I've had a very solo start and have been practicing a rough and ready make it up as you go along form of working with the Norse pantheon. I know Bob disagrees but I'm pretty sure they dropped an H-bomb on my life not so long ago to teach me a lesson about respect. And then it really got out of hand. Looong story, and currently ongoing. So any advice to avoid a repeat performance would be greatly appreciated.
no, you're still current. I understand the SA/Zimbabwe thing; we have that out here, too-- devaluation. Sometimes I don't know how we can explain these things.There is no parity.
My Mum only knew that the groat was some form of old currency. I looked it up, and groats are pretty old. I'd really be surprised if she knew what they were. And it may sound funny, but I'm 38 years old and I'm not sure how old she is and unless I have a really good reason and am prepared to die, I'm not about ask her. And when I hear Bob talking about things like being in a bar at a sea port, the Black Sea port of Varna, Bulgaria, at night, drinking and talking with other seafarers, travelers from other lands, no common language, but communicated anyway, all the way back in the 60's like it was yesterday... gosh, to me that's like going back into the time of Legend. Don't get me wrong, Bob, I'm not saying you're old, I'm just saying it's just really cool that you were there in that time, O' Venerable One.
And, payden, I'm not sure what you're asking.
payden: any advice on where to start with fitting the runes into Norse beliefs?
I can't define anybody's belief system for them. Each person has to know or at least find out what they "believe" in for them self. That's part of the beauty of life, I feel. I mean you have to know what enriches your life.If that's what you're asking. But regarding Norse mythology and culture, I meant that you'd have to picture what it was like living in the day to day in those times, and in extreme conditions-- social and environmental. I mean you could be eating dinner and some guys with axes and swords on some raiding party from another clan come and kick off your door.Or having to deal with the dark, ice, and cold most of the time. Can you imagine going to an outhouse in sub-zero temperatures? I know they didn't have outhouses(did they?), but you can understand what I'm saying.
With the mythology part, read the Eddas-- the poetic and the prose. Find translations by authors you can understand. What do I mean by that? Well, sometimes how a thing is said, the way it said, how things are worded can make all the difference in someone's understanding. In my case, when I read the rune poems, I readily understand Bruce Dickins's translation as opposed to another.
e.g. "Wealth is a source of discord among kinsmen; the wolf lives in the forest." -- Bruce Dickins
Immediately, I grasp the meanings. I can see what is meant. Like seeing all sides at once. If you have wealth, give freely, and do not leave others in want; and if you are in want, don't be grudgeful or covetous. The wolf--Avarice, greed.
Whereas, with other translations I don't get everything, and some parts are obscured to me. Not that there's anything wrong with other translations, but some translations speak to me clearer than others. And maybe someone else may not understand Bruce Dickins's translation, but understand someone else's translation.
I just started reading the Eddas myself. I like Jean I. Young's translation of the Prose Edda. And Bob, um, I don't think it was patricide like I thought; I was under that impression from reading other articles about it, but from what I understand from reading that part of the story, was that Ymir, the frost ogre, wasn't related to the Aesir, at least, not directly. Ymir was formed from the mingling of "all things cold and harsh" and all that was "warm and bright". Ymir was nourished by Audhumla. Audhumla made Buri. Buri is Odin's paternal grandfather. The... hmmm... wait a minute. I think Ymir was related. From writing this I realize that all the Giants came from Ymir. And Odin's Mum was a giantess. So, I guess he was Odin's maternal grandfather. Now, as to the "why", in speaking about Ymir, the High One replied: In no wise do we consider he was a god. He and all his family were evil; we call them frost ogres.
Well, I'm not getting into the nitty-gritty of it right now, but at least I feel a little clearer for writing this. I have a better picture of what was happening at the time. Anyway....
And, yeah, payden, "stuff" happens in everybody's life. It's just how you deal with it. If a particular challenge keeps recurring, maybe there's something you need to learn? maybe to pay more attention to YOUR Life? and to the lives of those around you? and how you are affected or influenced by them? and how you influence or affect their lives? I dunno, payden, I can't tell you these things, Bro'; it's your life, you have to check it out for yourself, and see the beauty of it for yourself. I can't do it for you, and nobody else can do it for you. You have to do it for Your Self. You understand?
Anyway, I hope what I've said has helped you in some way. Hmmm... what was the question again, payden? Maybe my answer had nothing to do with what you were asking. But if that wasn't what you were asking, then ask again and I'll help if I can.
Well, I guess that's about all I got for now. Take care payden, King Bob, Stephen, and everybody.
Nope - you didn't help with the question - regurgitating standard new age plonk doesn't work with me. "Stuff" happened and is happening yes - not for me to learn, not by my choice and all the other "its my fault" reasons we're supoposed to just swallow. If you want a lesson out of that its lie down and serenly accept all the rubbish thrown at you - you don't strike me as that kind of person (judging from the few paragraphs I've read), not my style either. So don't go there. But that wasn't the question...
As for belief systems you mentioned the phrase you used was
-- learn rune IN CONTEXT of Norse culture/mythology
I was after a bit of advice on where to look to follow that line of thought. That's if you're still speaking to me....
gee, I'm sorry if I came across as new-agey; I'm not even quite so sure what "new-agey" means. I just kinda figure Earth is Earth, and certain values and principles apply no matter what time or place you're in. But that's just me. Anyway, again, my apologies.
Now, as to context, well, like I said, picture what it was like to live in those days; and compare it to what life is like today.[ And with "context" and "meaning", I can see this discussion going on a number of different tangents, like the runes are coming from an oral tradition, and having a forum, a text-forum, is still very new to me]... anyway.... like Stephen, I'm looking for deeper understanding. There's a saying: I know you understood what I said, but do you understand what I mean?
If you could be a little more specific in what you're asking, I'll answer as best as I can. But again, in context, take "Fehu" for example; today, unless you're a farmer, having cattle, literally owning herds of bovines, is not the general idea that comes to mind when they think of wealth. You understand what I'm sayin'? And in context again, so you finally make it to the outhouse(if they had those), walking through gusts of icy wind, through feet of freezing snow, and the bone chilling cold, you do your stuff, and then you have a realization, a sudden awakening-- you forgot the toilet paper. And then it further dawns upon you that I really don't think that they had toilet paper in those days...and living under such conditions, I couldn't survive.
And in today's context, I can give you a real life example. What year is this...ok, about twenty or so years ago I was snorkeling with one of my friends in the waters off Lime Quay. It's like a little island a mile or two off the coast. It was a bright sunny day and visibility in the water was very clear. The bright vibrant colours of the fishes like rainbows shimmering underwater.I was having a great time, when suddenly, I heard the unmistakable call of nature. Now, you have to understand that the only trees on the quay at the time were mangrove trees. I don't know if you know what those are, but the leaves are very... scant. Anyway, I don't think it would be appropriate to go into the details about how I overcame that challenge at the time, but let's just say I have great appreciation for things many people take for granted.
Anyway, payden, I really don't know how I ended up talking about all of this, but I hope it has helped in some way.
Now I understand what you mean. I do try and do that. Putting the runes in the original context they were used for I mean. I agree, people do take too many things for granted, an example I like is Kenaz, not many people have been lost in the dark in the middle of a snow storm so they don't appreciate the feeling associated with seeing a beacon in the distance. Picturing the original use actually helps to translate it into current situations - I always try to reduce the concept to its simplest form - good advice courtesy of Sherlock Holmes.
As for the new agey thing - sorry about that, its a sore point for me - short version - I'm busy witnessing the destruction of 3 lives (including mine and a 11 year old girl's) and there's nothing I can do about it. And the root of the problem was the whole see no evil, don't speak about it and do nothing about it attitude. Not looking for help or advice but just so you know I am a little sensitive to "lie down and accept it" platitudes. No offense was intended.
Maybe we should start a new thread - scrolling through the 20 or so responses is a bit silly.