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Re: How strange can HT therapies and results get? Just as strange as the disease-No Rules applies
Don,
I only mentioned the good relationship because it can be difficult to persuade some of the medical deities to even consider something that they KNOW is not correct. Medical beliefs are often not based on medical facts:-)
I don't think there are any new DES studies because the medical belief is that it is too dangerous and no better than other ADT drugs. Of course the dangers of heart related consequences idintified for low dose DES do not seem to be any greater than similar risks identified many years afte the adoption of the 'safer' ADT drugs, but......well that would clash with medical beliefs.
I'm posting one of the old study abstracts to start you on your hunt:
Low-dose oestrogen in the treatment of advanced prostate cancer
Br J Urol 1996 Dec;78(6):921-7; discussion 927-8 Related Articles, Books,
Experience with low-dose oestrogen in the treatment of advanced prostate cancer: a personal view.
Bishop MC.
Nottingham University Hospitals, UK.
OBJECTIVE: To re-evaluate the treatment of advanced prostatic carcinoma with diethylstilboestrol (DES) in low dosage in relation to the degree of suppression of plasma testosterone.
PATIENTS AND METHODS: The study comprised 106 patients with advanced carcinoma of the prostate (89 with T3/4 M1 and 17 with T3/4 N0/1 M0) who were treated with 1 mg/day of DES. The response was assessed clinically and by the change in plasma prostate specific antigen, prostatic and phosphatase and alkaline phosphatase, and plasma testosterone was monitored regularly. In a few patients it was possible to reduce the dose to 0.5 mg/day DES; in others, the initial response was not sustained and they were treated with an increased dose of DES or bilateral orchidectomy.
RESULTS: Seventy patients (Group 1) showed a sustained response to 1 mg/day of DES (0.5 mg/day in three) and 50 remained in remission at a mean of 21 months of treatment. Of the 36 patients offered secondary treatment, 12 (Group 2) responded with a second remission. Only 27% of patients had mean testosterone levels in the castrate range (0-2 nmol/L) but most in Group 1 had mean levels of < 10 nmol/L, whilst in 10 of the 12 patients in Group 2, the level was > 10 nmol/L. Overall times to progression and death were comparable with the results of conventional monotherapy or combination treatment and complication rates were acceptable.
CONCLUSION: Low-dose oestrogen therapy (1 mg/day of DES) is cheap, effective and caused few side-effects, none of which was life-threatening. In many patients, only minimal suppression of the plasma testosterone was required and the response appeared to be qualitative, although there was considerable variation in the threshold of response. A randomized trial of oestrogen, in a minimal dose adjusted to the requirements of the individual patient, against conventional hormone treatment now seems justified.
Re: How strange can HT therapies and results get? Just as strange as the disease-No Rules applies
I thought I posted that link prior:
http://ffyates.com/prostate/des.pdf (nov. 2003 J. Urology)
(old stuff: Complete remission w/DES: Journal of Urology 1955, 153 (6): 1944-5 (maybe at www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7752364 )
www.jurology.com/article/S0022-5347(05)62916-3/abstract (in my old notes??)
Dr. Premoli on estrogen patches & DES: www.pcainaz.com/Pages?ETE_eng.pdf
*docs make alot of money on LHRH drugs like Lupron and don't generally bother to go and look over all these 2nd line drugs, but might, but also oncologist do look at most everything for PCa control in their patients. Rarely will any hospital endorse using these drugs: eulexin, nilandron, avodart, proscar, ketoconazole, DES, emcyt, estradiol patches or gels, leukine,thalidomide, and some others. They do heavily endorse Lupron (mostly), sometimes casodex, definitively chemo drugs (very profittable too).
Watch some of Snuffy Myers videos on 2nd line hormone therapies, very enlightening as to what can be achieved in patients and himself with PCa still doing excellent around yr. 10-12??? now.
