This forum is for the discussion of anything to do with Prostate Cancer. There are only four rules:
No fundraisers, no commercials (although it is OK to recommend choices of treatment or medical people based on your personal research; invitations to participate in third-party surveys are also acceptable, provided there is no compensation to YANA);
No harvesting e-mail addresses for Spam;
No insults or flaming - be polite and respectful at all times and understand that there may be a variety of points of view, all of which may have some validity;
Opinions are OK, but please provide as much factual evidence as possible for any assertions that you are making
Failure to abide by these simple rules will result in the immediate and permanent suspension of your posting privileges.
Since this is an International Forum, please specify your location in your post.
Being in the Fire Service and experiencing the impacts created by a suicidal patient towards the family is very uncomfortable and there is nothing good about performing this action. The only one that thinks they gained anything through this action is the patient, which didn't realize the anger, hostility, and impact they have created against them. It’s a very easy cop out for a coward.
It is very hard for me to explain, but if you would read my bio you might understand why I speak the way I do. Believe me; I been exposed to a variety of ways that could make an accident look normal.
The pain and humiliation that I've experience through my journey hasn't been the best, but at least, I'm alive and making the best of each day. It is what it is and it could be a lost worst. There have been many emotional and physical pains during the last few months, but I think of it as becoming a mature mentor with knowledge to share with others.
I will say it's very selfish to perform an act of suicide, but there could be that certain point you reach in your life and enough is enough based upon the knowledge that know about your body and it's functions.
You are an individual who should make their own decisions, but also need to keep in mind that you have a family who thinks very highly of you and they will be hurt a lot more than you are or experiencing currently. Don’t be a coward and cop out, be a man and stand up and beat the pain. Keep a positive attitude, it’s easier than the negative.
For me the question is not only the pain issue. There is my quality of life, and that of the few people who might be that concerned to be with me.My kids live a long way away and my partner is not well. We jokingly wonder who will be there to look after other if the need arises.
The issue of what it means to others close to you can be looked at in two ways. Sure they will heart broken and sad. Every body will die and we all get over the loss of a loved one no matter how he/she passes on.
The second aspect is that they see you suffering and in a coma most of the time.I personally have known a number of men who took this terrible way out. In all the cases the families were understanding and in a way relieved that his suffering came to an end.
Suicide in the case of a terminal illness accompanied with tremendous pain, in my opinion is a brave and considerate act. I am not talking about the religous or moral aspects. Everybody in such a position has to make this dfficult desicion by himself. If he is lucky to have somebody at his side then to live or not is a shared option
Why would anyone reading your post put any weight in it? The first thing you do is belittle and brow beat the person asking the question by calling him "a cop out and a coward". You clearly have no respect for him or the person running this website.
FIRST: The person asking the question has openly asked the most serious question ever about his own life and the first thing you do is push him towards the edge. I wonder how a person can post something like that.
SECOND: Terry has a rule, No Flaming - Be Polite at All Times. You come to his house and ignore his rules so you show him no respect either.
I'm going to be honest here. Last night I was the first reply to your post but ended up deleting my post. But after sleeping on it I feel I owe my reply to your post to the person asking the question. I'm sure JIM G was hurt deeply by your comments and deserves an apology from you.
So here's your comments I feel are unacceptable.
1) It’s a very easy cop out for a coward
2) Don’t be a coward and cop out, be a man and stand up and beat the pain
Hopefully you'll see where you failed and try to fix the damage you've done. But being honest I don't know how you fix something like this after the fact.
Or maybe you'll simply think I'm a coward because I post using an assumed name.
There are two issues: pain and depression. Pain was never a major part of my problem. Depression was a big problem for me. The medical system failed me, causing me to have to undergo two unpleasant treatments that may not work. I was not only depressed, but mad as well. While I never considered suicide, I always acknowledged that it provided a way out if things got really bad. Fortunately, I got help for my depression and I've come out of it all the stronger.
I wish I had the answer for you but I don't. But I will share some information with you about my own life and what we face. I've been married since 1966 to the most wonderful woman in the world. She has cared for me and loved me every moment of our life and I cherish every second with her. I would be totally lost without her in my life. But, there's always a but isn't there.
My wife was in a head on car crash in 1964, two years before we were married. She had recently been married and both of them were driving down a hiway at 70 miles per hour and was hit head on by another car.
The car that hit them moved across the center lane and her husband hit the ditch trying to avoid them. The car continued moving over and hit them head on in the ditch. The woman driving the car was playing with her dog and not watching the road (according to her daughter that yelled it out in a meeting saying if she hadn't been playing with the dog her father would still be alive, the father was in the passenger seat and the daughter was in the back seat of the other car).
My wife's husband was killed instantly, be-headed to share the gory details. She was thrown into the dash of a 1957 Chevy with the solid metal dash of the day. Then she was thrown out of the car and the car rolled over her. She was lying there, both eyes popped out of her head with her face ripped apart and part of it laying on the ground. A doctor just happened to be driving by and stopped. He put her eyes back in, gave her a Tracheostomy, found part of her face laying on the ground and wrapped it. Stabilized her as much as possible and got her to the hospital.
An extremely long story cut as short as possible. She was crushed by the car rolling over her and many of the bones in her body was broken, her face was destroyed, and all her teeth was knocked out. They thought she'd die on the way to the hospital, then thought she'd die before the night was over. They called her father and told him to get there as soon as possible but she would most likely die before he got there.
She was in the hospital for months and months and had many surgeries to put her back together including re-constructive surgery on her face and mouth. She's been living in chronic pain her entire life. BTW... I'm crying now as I write this.
Today in her sixties she has a pain pump implanted in her body that pumps the strongest pain medicine possible directly into her spine and she still lives with terrible pain every second of her life, just terrible.
So the truth is, we know pain and the thoughts of suicide intimately.
I know this doesn't answer your question but it's the only answer I have. Anyone asking about suicide deserves an answer and this is all I have to share.
When people hear her story they always tell her how lucky she was to survive the accident. She always tells me later how much that hurts her because she wishes she'd died in the accident and wasn't forced to live her entire life in terrible pain. The truth is, if you don't live in chronic pain you don't know anything about it. You can sit right beside someone in terrible pain and feel nothing, so how can you possibly understand what they're going through.
For some, pain management works well, for others it doesn't work much at all. The longer you live in chronic pain and take pain medicine for it the more your body gets used to it and builds up a tolerance to it, even the strongest medicine. So pain management, as good as it is for some, stops working for others.
I'm sorry if I offended anyone. There was intention on my part of brow beating anyone, I was just stating my opinion. I just emailed Terry to ask for the post to be removed sinced I caused such uproar and people are taking offense. Please accept my apoligies.
John
Jim G you ask: "When the physical pain becomes unmanageable and life seems hopeless, does suicide become an option."
Terry does not want us to get into a discussion of the morals and ethics of this. I think he is right. This forum works best when we don't debate issues.
I think Paul A hits on something in asking you to seperate depression from pain. If a person suffers terrible and unameliorated pain then he has every right to end that situation in the way that is best for him - not anyone else, just him. Perhaps even if his depression is chronic and his outcome hopeless he will take the same course. But as Paul A says, there are many things that can be done to lift a man from depression. Paul A has experienced that and so, I think has Joe from Hawaii, if they don't mind me saying so.
Also, The Stranger and Lennie show you that for many people pain can be overcome.
But at the end of the day it is YOUR life. I hope I'm not straying into territory that Terry warns against, but in the American Declaration of Independence, which is probably one of the greatest documents ever written, we are told that man has the inalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. In my view, the Right to those things means that your Life is your own to have and to hold - or,if necessary to YOU,and in your judgement, to end. In that sense,YOUR life is YOUR property.
Please read all the stories here: all those who have had unsuccessful treatments and poor prognoses. You will be amazed at how much adversity people can live with even when they cannot overcome it.
I was in two minds as to whether John G’s original post should stand when he posted it because I have been on sites where such a post would have been seen as very provocative and would have incited a flame war. That has not been the case here. Generally the response have been thought provoking and, I believe, useful.
John’s response had some good points, but was indeed strongly worded and could be seen as impolite and in breach of the simple rules of the Forum. He has been courageous enough to apologize for this and I believe that he is sincere in his apology. He has also asked me to remove his post from the thread, but I cannot do that. I can remove the entire thread, but not part of the thread.
I think there is value in the thread as it is and unless anyone disagrees, I intend leaving it as it is, together with any more valid posts received by ‘close of business’ today and then lock the thread to prevent any additional postings.
I like your post, thanks for sharing your thoughts on the subject. I think issues like this should be talked about and for the most part this thread has been very good.
The point you make about your life being exactly that... "your life" is very well taken and I agree with you completely.
