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Testosterone levels, have any of you guys ever played with the third rail?
I just turn 50 three weeks ago, and made an appointment with my doctor to discuss my low level Testosterone. I have been averaging a level of about 200 since my operation 7-years ago. I'm concern with losing bone mass, energy, and having heart problems, and I have noticed that my sex appetite is less then it once was. But I'm healthy, and people think I'm in my high 30s low 40s. I exercise allot. Have any of you guys experience low Test... levels and did you do something about it?
Re: Testosterone levels, have any of you guys ever played with the third rail?
Earlier this month I went to a Prostate Cancer Support group that meets every 1st Monday of the month at Beth Israel Deaconess Hospital in Boston, Massachusetts, USA. Dr. Morgentaler spoke on this subject. Coincidentally, an article in the Boston Glode on-point to this subject was written. Take a look at this:
Re: Re: Re: Testosterone levels, have any of you guys ever played with the third rail?
I'm guessing Jose is comparing using Testosterone supplements with fooling around with the 'live' thrid rail on a subway system.
The kids here don't have that option - instead the foolish ones ride surfboard atop the trains and sometimes pay around with the life overhead line, with fatal consequences.
Re: Re: Testosterone levels, have any of you guys ever played with the third rail?
Steve and all,
I think you need to be very wary of articles like this one – for ease of clicking it is - 'I . . . feel like a man again' because it is likely either written by a lay person who may not understand the issue fully – why should she? – or it may just summarise a press release put out on behalf of Dr Morgentaler to publicise his new book, "Testosterone for Life."
For example the journalist says Only when a man has a "clean" biopsy - an invasive procedure in which snippets of the prostate are surgically removed and tested - can a doctor confidently say the man doesn't have cancer.
I'd like to meet the doctor who can confidently say that a negative biopsy in a man with other indictors means that he doesn't have cancer. Every doctor I have come across would more likely say that there is no evidence of cancer - a somewhat different thing.
But having said that, a number of the men who have contributed their stories have taken testosterone supplements. One who comes to mind is GREGG MORRISON who did so much work in helping to get this site up and running.
My personal view, based on nothing more than all I have read on the subject is that the controversy which surrounds this is because of the continued assumption that there is a single disease labeled prostate cancer, whereas I am more and more convinced that there are many differing diseases that are treated the same way, but react differently.
That theory would account for many of the issues that puzzle us and would also the fact that it seems that some men can take testosterone supplements with impunity and others can’t.
We must each make our own decision about what risks we take on our journey, but the evaluation of the risks should be on the best available information, which is not necessarily an article in a newspaper :- )
Re: Testosterone levels, have any of you guys ever played with the third rail?
I raised this option with my urologist as I was coming out of ADT. He was against it for a very good reason. Playing with hormone levels upsets the delicate feedback system of our endocrine system. Adding T could shut down normal production requiring you to be on it for life.
Re: Re: Testosterone levels, have any of you guys ever played with the third rail?
I guess we all know that testosterone is the fuel that feeds the PCa fire. Therefore I suspect one would need to feel very comfortable with that in mind, before altering the body's testosterone levels.
Re: Re: Re: Testosterone levels, have any of you guys ever played with the third rail?
John,
There is a fair bit of debate about the place of testosterone in the growth of PCa cells. Whilst there is a general view that this is the source of the fuel, it also appears that there are variants of the disease that do not need testosterone related fuels to keep on growing: were this not the case, then ADT would work every time, and clearly it doesn't.
The other argument is that if all indicators are that the tumour was completely contained within the prostate - as evidenced by a lack of detectable PSA - then there are no cancer cells to be fuelled by testosterone.
There are some big assumptions there - hence, I think, Jose's reference to the third rail.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Testosterone levels, have any of you guys ever played with the third rail?
Yes Terry I concur with your comments. But there is also the issue of the bodies own immunological response to PCa cells to be considered as well. Following successful treatment of whatever variety for PCa, it would be inappropriate to speculate that the body no longer produces rogue PC cells. By rogue I mean daughter cells dissimilar in cell structure to the adult. The body immune system still functions in targeting and destroying such cells, but it's efficacy is questionable. Thus my rationale suggests a fine balance between maintain homeostasis and rogue cell production. Such a balance may be tipped toward successful rogue cell production by heightened testosterone levels.
John
Re: Re: Re: Testosterone levels, have any of you guys ever played with the third rail?
Is testosterone really the fuel? Or is it the DHT and Estradiol that are made by enzyme conversion from Testosterone (therefore causing a low ratio of Testosterone to Estradiol)?
Progesterone cream has been shown to reverse PC by blocking the conversion of Testosterone to Estradiol (by aromatase) and to DHT (by 5-alpha reductase).
If Testosterone were the culprit, then teenage boys would get PC. But the men who do get PC tend to have high Estrogens and low Testosterone.
If you block conversion of Testosterone into the real bad guys, you should get the benefits against PC and at the same time get the benefit of increased Testosterone.
Search Progesterone Prostate Cancer for more info on this subject.
Re: Re: Re: Testosterone levels, have any of you guys ever played with the third rail?
Well, "third rail" is a new term to me, living here in southwest USA where there are no mass transit systems. That said, I guess you could say I played with fire... I was diagnoised in 1992 @ 49yrs. Had RP in January 1993. Maintained 0.1-0.3 PSA for 11 years. Original urologist retired; discussed T treatment with new urologist, who agreed we could try. After patches and cream, wound up with bi-monthly injections of DepoTestosterone, which proved to be most effective. However, after about 18 months, PSA began to creep up; went down after a 2-3 month recess, then back up when resumed. After having no T treatment for several months, PSA crept up to 0.6, at which time I went through 35 radiation treatments. Two years since last radiation treatment, PSA is still back down to 0.01-0.02. Have decided no more T treatments.
