Just to expand a bit on the comment I put here in the 'Managers Report' for our 7-6 win against The Condensers at 7-a-side last night regarding 'verbally aggressive tactics'.

We had a squad of 7 last night. Four of them (Jacko, Smithy, Danny Hagan & John Scouller) are all of the belief that we are not going to win anything unless we are verbally and physically aggressive towards our opponents and verbally aggressive towards the Referee (which they think will pressurise them into giving decisions our way). They claim that this is why the likes of AFC Cheshunt, East Herts and Flamstead End win things and/or reach Cup Finals and we don't...because we have too many players who are 'too nice and just want to play for fun'.

I agree with what they are saying to some extent, but both myself and Trevor are of the opinion that it is better to have a friendlier attitude towards the Referee in an effort to get him on our side. To be honest we were embarrassed watching from the touchline last night, as we did not see any bad refereeing decisions whatsover. Those four players were just arguing with him simply to make the game more 'aggressive' and to fire themselves up.
That's why Trev felt it necessary to go over and apologise to the Ref on the final whistle last night instead of patting our players on the back for an excellent win, and I backed him 100% with that. I didn't particularly feel like congratulating our players either, which was harsh on Lee King and Ben Keating as their attitude was excellent. They both gave 100%, chased back and defended, and concentrated on playing football.

We have always treated the 7-a-side League as a fitness exercise and to try out new players first and foremost. We do not go in it to 'win at all costs' with the risk of having players sent off for abusing the Referee.
There is now a rule for the 7-a-side League this Summer whereby any team who causes an abandonment automatically gets thrown out of the League with no appeal. The Referee had to stop the game twice last night to warn our players about the sin-bin rule and there is no question that Wildgoose (had he been refereeing) would have enforced it and then probably sent both Smithy and Jacko off or even abandoned the game.

I know the four players in question said to me after last night's game that they 'know how far they can go and would not do anything stupid enough to get themselves sent off or get the game abandoned', but that was a new Referee last night. There is no way we are going to know how he is going to react. It is far too risky in my opinion.
There is no question whatsoever that Terry Brown was sent off against Asco for 'being aggressive towards the Referee' and not the actual foul...despite what the Referee wrote in his report. You can see that clearly on You Tube. Terry thought he would just get booked for the foul.
By all means be 'aggressive' with our opponents in trying to win the game, but let's cut out this deliberate intimidation of Referees. It's well out of order in my book and totally unnecessary.

Rant over !

I've nevervheard such utter ******** from two
Managers i'n all my life jacko
Danny hagan and John
Played excellent last night and
U come on ere and praise ben and
Lee who both played excellent aswell
Utter nonsense none of us got sent off
Did we so that's our point u an trev
Were embarrassed cos we showed
Fight and spirit against an excellent side
Ur ******* jokers

Complete bollox !!!

Personally I did not say one nasty word to the ref last night and anything I did say was tongue in cheek with a wink, which the ref acknowledged.... And that is actually the right way to get the ref on your side.

I'm getting fed up of being the name that crops up all the time when you say something negative.

All we actually are is winners, and want to win every game, no matter what, as thats what actually counts!!!!! So we get a few bookings, a few sendings off next season, but we win the league....is that really an issue?

So basically I'm ******* off.....

have to agree with smithy we was brilliant last night as a team defended well and our counter attacking was excellent and no one had a go at each other, what i dont understand is you say these are all semi pro players and we beat them at one stage two or three goals up surely we deserve credit for that? we had a go at the the ref but none of it was ott maybe i should have been sent off for kicking out but i was tired and thought i should of had a free kick, 7 men all night against a quality team with 8 is 100% better than last week dont u think?

Totally Agree jacko

In all fairness the ref's get paid to be out there and do a job, if they believe a player or teams behaviour is out of hand they will deal with it. The fact that no sin bins or cards were shown suggests to me that it was acceptable?

I 100% agree that we should not verbally abuse or swear at a referee but talking to a ref is not an offence. All teams we play against do it, there is a line and players have to be trusted to know where that is. It is MENS football and any player that takes it too far will be letting their fellow players down.

Lads, all I am complaining about is an over-aggressive attitude towards the Referee here. Nothing else !!! Some of you have not read my 'statement' properly.

I agree we were excellent last night from a footballing point of view. The whole team.
Smithy...I said to you afterwards that was really good play when you were digging away at that ex-Enfield Town player (forgotten his name now). I have got no problem with that whatsoever. I was only praising Lee & Ben specifically for not harrassing the Ref for every decision he made against us...which I still insist you four were doing deliberately to fire yourselves up. Jacko thinks we can win the League with a few sending-offs for that sort of aggression next season, but I think that is just plain stupid and I will always disagree with that I'm afraid.
O.K. fair enough if Jacko says the Ref knew his 'abuse' was 'tongue in cheek with a wink', but that is not how it appeared to myself and Trevor on the touchline. As I said, a lot of Refs would have sin-binned him at least.

I propose that any player sent off either at 7-a-side or 11-a-side next season for abusing/intimidating the Ref is fined £25.00 by us in addition to any F.A. Fine they might receive.
Jacko/Smithy/John...I challenge you three (and Hagan, whose BlackBerry won't let him post on here) to prove me wrong and that you are not guilty of harrassing Referees (as you all claim).

...and no throwing your toys out of the pram and threatening to leave just because of my opinions !...as one of you just has by text.

Good sensible comment Loveday.

I have got no problem with players initially complaining to a Ref about a decision (without swearing at him). It's carrying on the argument that I don't like, and that is what some of our players are doing too much in my opinion in order to intimidate the Ref and fire themselves up...just because other teams do it.
I would rather our players not take the chance and risk getting sent off. I'm sorry Jacko, but we are not going to win Division One next season with loads of our best players suspended.

As John said, we beat a team full of Semi-Pro's last night. That shows you how good we are...but we need 11 men on the pitch (or 7 during the Summer) at all times.

I say AGAIN, last night I said nothing that would have got me even close to being sin binned and a lot of the time my voice would have been heard telling others to shut up and get on with it or ********** them for not doing there job.

I'm sorry if my voice bellows out and you think it is always abuse against the ref, but personally I feel you have a personal vendetta against me, to try and get me out of the club, why I don't know. But as I mentioned before if you are having a 'rant' about anything or being negative about anything mine is the first name that crops up.

I've had enough of it now.

I think u and Trevor have got big issues if ur
Happy playing like tarts and having a dig at the
Ref when his wrong then you have the
Wrong personnel at the club if u said well
Played lads u done really well great result then
Said i'n the bar about us and the ref then
All would of been sorted i'n a chat and
A pint but no not u two u have to be *******
Negative straight away which is ********
If u ask me this website should be shut down
Cos all u do is **** players off on ere big time

As I have just said to Hagan on Facebook (because he can't post on here), the only reason I get upset is because I am the Club Secretary and it's me who has to take the flak from Referees and League Officials when our players get overly aggressive, particularly towards Referees.

If the Ref wasn't being 'intimidated' (for want of a better word) by our players last night, then why did Trev feel compelled to have to go over to him on the final whistle to apologise ?
Because we both saw the Ref shaking his head in disbelief towards the final whistle at the amount of stick he was getting for EVERY decision he made against us, that's why. It looked like he was thinking 'I'm not going to bother with this next week'.

I am not there this coming Thursday (League AGM) and neither is Trevor (on Holiday). Barney will be Manager, but obviously he is not going to encourage players to 'be nasty and win at all costs' is he, but I will do so when I am 'Manager' the following Thursday night if you all really want to play like that.
As I say, if you are all convinced you know 'how far you can go' with Referees before being sin-binned or sent-off, then fine. We'll take the risk and play that way.
I still think we should impose a fine if anybody does get sin-binned or sent off for dissent though...from this coming Monday Night onwards.

Jacko...I can assure you I have no personal vendetta against you mate. Yes, we have had plenty of disagreements over the years, but I hate to see anyone leave the club.

The Ref wasn't wrong though. We were just playing with the attitude to contest every decision he made against us. It's all part of the game and it's what every team at professional and top Semi-Pro level does.
It's what AFC Cheshunt, Flamstead End & East Herts do.
Personally I don't like it, but o.k., you have all had your say now and we will therefore continue to play that way from now on. If you want to risk getting sent off and think it won't affect us winning things, so be it.

Smithy, these sort of debates are precisely what the Forum is for...so that the rest of our players can join in who were not there at the match or in the bar afterwards (as Loveday has done).
I can easily delete any posts that get out of hand.
There's nothing wrong with this one (yet) as far as I am concerned. It is showing who our players are that want to give 100% and win things.
More good players who are 'winners' might want to join us now.

As soon as I go away Laurence manages to upset people with his posts.

My main point about Thursday was that he was a new referee who I thought had a good game. All referees make some mistakes and a quick moan without swearing is acceptable. What worried me was that when he threatened to use the sin bin we carried on. It was an excellent performance against good opposition but if the referee has sent Smithy to the sin bin for 5 minutes I am 100% certain we would have lost. It is nonsence to say you know how far you can go because you do not know how the referee will react to dissent.

I think Laurence was a bit unfair on Jacko because he was reasonably well behaved.

Good luck next week with no-one in the sin bin.

Trev, judging from the irate comments I got on Facebook from Hagan & Jacko, this is the bit they were annoyed about:
'I didn't particularly feel like congratulating our players either, which was harsh on Lee King and Ben Keating as their attitude was excellent. They both gave 100%, chased back and defended, and concentrated on playing football.'

It's as if I was saying that Ben & Lee played much better than Jacko, Hagan, Smithy & John just because they were not intimidating the Ref (loudly in Lee's case, as apparently he was !). Obviously I didn't mean it like that as we played well as a team and everybody deserves equal praise for the football we played.

All I was trying to do was point out exactly what you have just said, Trev...but as usual I get slated and accused of being a complete kant and trying to force players out of the club.

Let's just hope everybody has calmed down by Thursday, as at the moment it looks like a few players don't want to play any more because of me !

Below is my facebook comment, not too sure you can class it as irate !!!!

" Oh... Finger my spider......This is getting well out of hand, we did what we needed to last night to win, do we do it all the time??? No, it's a question of circumstances, what you are missing here, is what we were doing was also winding up the oppo. If done correctly this is also one of our strongest weapons, with such an experienced (old) side...."

No, that's fine Jacko, but what Hagan put was the worst abuse I have ever had from a Rovers player. Let's just hope he was p!ssed when he wrote it.

If he's reading this, I don't bear any grudges. Never have done to any of our players. I know it's always my fault in the first place.

By the way, I have just finished editing a Cup Final where one team decided to 'test out' the Referee (like we were doing on Thursday night). The Ref lost his patience and started booking and then sending-off their players for virtually 'nothing' and they ended up with only 8 men on the pitch. Amazingly they still won the game with a last-minute winner because they were so fired up, but they were so lucky it was unbelievable. 9 times out of 10 it will not get you anywhere and just bring a whole heap of shame on the club.

Jesus Christ, am I glad I wasn't playing the other night.

Without being there, I don't want to comment too much but if nobody was booked or sent off surely they've not quite crossed the line in the opinion of the referee.

O.K. fine. So we carry on 'risking it' then.