Hi all,
Talking to B.B yesterday, he was telling me there r 5 new houses built opposite Richardson's Row in Hilden. The foreman said work had stopped as there was a well & a stream running underneath the street. The well had been used before water had been installed & was still there. To day the bricklayers r working again so doubtless Hilden will come alive again soon. Everything changes, the saying" Nothing lasts forever" takes on new meaning. Then I hear there must b a developer bought Hanna's house in East Down View as there is a petition going around protesting about proposed flats being built on the site when the house is knocked down. Then there r flats built where Paddy Stoupes & Adrian Mulholland had their yard, behind Dougherty's shop off Leamington. B. B. says they r spoiling the Low Road building in every available space. Joe maintains it is because the services (water, roads etc) r already there is the main reason. Time brings many changes tho not for the best always. Pat

God, her jaw must be all right. She's out-talking me today.

Thank you God.

I guess that proves 'miracles still happen'

In Hilden in the space between Mill St and Bridge St where the inhabitants hung their washing out to dry were 2 pumps. Only half the houses back and front, starting at approximately the middle and heading up to the top where Blakeley's shop was had drinking water piped into them. That must have been the well or stream discovered building the houses. in fact a few of the houses in Bridge St did not have electric.
Donald

Donald,
U r right. B.B. did mention pumps being there at one time. Never knew some of the houses had no electric. Maybe that is why Mickey Sharkey's house was lit by candlelight & everyone called him a miser for it.
Pat

Correction
I meant only the houses starting at the mill gate to approximately the middle both back and front had drinking water piped into them. The rest had to carry their water from one of the 2 pumps.
Donald

Robbie,

The day is not over yet!!.
Pat

Donald,
I never knew that, was that the case in later years say the 70's 80's people carrying water from pumps, exactly where were these pumps situated. ?
U learn something every day. Pat

Hi all,
Talking of changes, I will say Goodnight & go to watch some T.V. if anything good is on the myriad of stations. Talk to u tomorrow please God. Night.
Pat

Pat
The pumps were situated between the two rows of houses, we called the area " the backs" and served both rows, back and front. The first one was around the middle, where the Dornan family lived ,the second at the top outside Bleakley,s shop's back door. There was also a concrete base from an air raid shelter there. Some of the women used to wash their pots and pans under the running water. My Aunt Tessie Wallace who lived in 159 Mill St had to draw drinking water from there.
I was told once that when the electric was installed in the Hilden houses the tenants had to pay a sum of money towards the costs and some wouldn't or couldn't pay and made do with the existing gas light. At the Locks and Down Villas we used oils lamps, candles, primus stoves and the good old open fire for cooking, heating and lighting. I remember a Sunday morning almost 60 years ago my father and I upon returning from Sunday mass were greeted with the news my baby brother had been taken to the Infirmary with severe burns to his feet and legs caused by a pot of boiling soup falling from the open fire which had burned down and settled. The poor boy was left sitting in front of the fire to keep him warm. Good old days????
Donald

Donald,
Used to think the row u lived in & the houses down the line were a great place to live except at nights walking home in the pitch dark & maybe the "guttie slipper" man waiting on the 41's. The women were exceptional then to manage all on a coal fire. Always thought there was gas to cook on in the houses on the line. Hope your brother suffered no permanent damage, burning was a common occurence then, pots being pulled over by children, pans going on fire & gas leaks.
Those were the days of basic living for the poor & most people were poor then r working class, the same thing. The salt of the earth, there were neighbours then & family circles who helped each other out when needed, everyone had time to stop & talk r gossip, bring the kids out at Easter, shop with them at Christmas, visit the sick & attend wakes,go on outings to Bangor, .Newcastle ,Warrenpoint. Everyone knew each other in Lisburn & surrounding areas then, what have we now?

Pat

Pat,
the locks and Down Villas were the most primitive dwellings you could imagine. Like I said no running water ( except what was collected in a rain barrel in the yard) Drinking water was carried from the pump at Down Villas outside Leathem,s house. The dry toilets were emptied when full by the carters from Hilden mill. Rubbish was either burned or thrown into the Lagan.
when my Gran moved to 169 Mill St Hilden ( that was in the half which had piped drinking water ) it was like heaven, electric, gas, running water and a flush toilet in the yard.
Donald

Hi all, yes I know what you mean by the bad old days and the good old days too.

But, you must admit, we have a much better quality of life now. No-one's poor, as we were, and everyone was. We all have heat, electricity, plenty of food, health service. I know we look back on the old days in a kind of romantic nostalgia. But, for our parents, with no washing machines, no hot water, no money, a shilling for the meter, no tumble dryers, no carpet on the floors, it wasn't so great.

I remember a family in Huguenot Drive, being evicted from their house because they hadn't the money to pay the rent. I distinctly still see that family (I remember their name) standing, looking on, while the eviction people put their furniture onto the street. If I remember correctly, it was raining.
What sort of people had we then, who decided to carry out such deeds. I suppose they had to do their jobs but I never forget that episode. Poor woman. Whatever happened to her and her family? All because she had no money.

Think again, when you remember the "good old Days".

Thinking about the hard times reviewed here, I was, as some of you will know, a part of them.
So, I ask myself, why all this nostalgic verse? Why does a part of me still long for that old two up, two down shack, where we slept, four to a bed, without sheets, and with newspaper between a couple of rough blankets in winter? Where a scrag of mutton stew was the best meal of the week? Where neighbours and family got scarlet fever, tuberculosis and diphtheria, and where many died young?
The answer is that we exist in a microcosm of time and space, experiencing and absorbing events with the brainpower and knowledge at our disposal at the time of the events. In early childhood, my mother was my guardian, and the centre of my life. When I was hurt or frightened, I ran to her. As my life extended to include my father and siblings, I gradually learned that I must shoulder some responsibility, for myself, and for my young brothers and sisters. But even then, we had each other. Gradually that feeling of brotherhood extended to neighbours and friends.
But eventually I went out into the wide, wide world, where I was alone, and in time became responsible for my own family. And I survived, sometimes projecting an image of cocky belligerence to hide that need, that longing, to run back to the undemanding love and protection of my mother and my old family.
The children in Iraq or in Borneo today would not wish to leave the love and security they feel in the heart of their families for all the promises of wealth and happiness in the world. So it was with me. Sometimes now, in sombre mood, like a frightened child, I close my eyes to the comparative comfort of my surroundings, and I long to be back, poor, bedraggled and beloved, in my little grey home in the past.

Ann
I can still remember the evictions in Hilden, one was even photographed and printed in the Ulster Star sometime in the early 60s. The husband was sacked and some time later the baliffs came and set their few sticks of furniture on the street. I can still picture it.
We were also given notice to vacate our house in Bridge St as my father quit working in the mill and went to the Blackstaff mill on the Springfield Rd Belfast to work.We moved back into my Gran,s in Mill St and received another letter from the company instructing us we were not allowed to stay there and must move on. We then lived for a short time again at the locks with great uncle Ned Watters until we got a flat in Lawnbrook Drive. Then guess what? My father returned to the mill at Hilden as the journey each morning to Belfast on a moped proved too much.
I was about 14 then and was scared stiff walking up the line each night in darkness.

Pat,
I thought the guttie slipper man was only active during the war in the blackouts. I often wondered what his family thought or did they know what was happening.

Donald,

There was always a "guttie slipper" man about except in the Summer, rumours about who he was abounded but no proof emerged as he was never caught. Ann was chased by him one night as she was foolish enough to get off the bus at Hilden in the dark instead of going on to the end of the town stop.

"She who loves the danger nearly perished in it"
Pat

Dabbler & all,

I think it was the unconditional LOVE then.

Pat

Hi all,

O Most Wise One. I've already told about that night on the Forum.

That was one night when Pat McClure (a REAL gentleman) had not been there to escort me as far as Gordon's Avenue and watch until I turned the bend in the road.

I was only about 16 or 17 at the time and to tell the truth I never would have thought of going to the end of the town. Anyway, I could have been chased there too. AND, I don't think it was the guttie slipper man who chased me. I have a fair idea, as I said before, who it was - DEFINITELY NOT PAT McCLURE.

Who would have known that I had a Thursday night routine, either getting off the last bus or last train. In this case, it was the last train from Belfast. I'm not saying anything but I have my suspicions.

Thank God I was a very good runner.

Ann
I met Pat the last time accidently when I was in Lisburn about a year ago. We were sitting at the same table in the Tuesday Bell and got talking, then we realised we knew each other. The McClures were a very nice family, Gabriel Kerr and I got talking about old times when I visited him and he said he never met a more happy and contented couple as Mr and Mrs McClure, always laughing and joking. I knew Pat, Jimmy and Francie who went to school with me. Pat tried his hand at everything, I remember him going around Hilden with a suitcase selling polish and soap.
Donald

Yes, Donald. Pat McClure was a real gentleman, as I said before. All the McClure family were nice, always friendly. I haven't seen Pat for donkeys' years.

One time, years and years ago a girlfriend and I were in the Stagecoach Inn. I had a bit of a cold and when Pat came over to speak to us, he noticed this. He left us and came back with a large brandy and port for me. He told me this would do me good and I'm sure it did.

He told my friend he could read people's hands, so she offered her outstretched hand. He sat holding it and running his finger on the different lines of her palm, telling her an oul yarn, but she was taking it all in.

I remember him telling her she would marry a widowed man with a grown up family. Don't know why I remember this. I'm keeping an eye on hubby anyway.

Dabbler,

Like all our mothers and as Pat says it was UNCONDITIONAL LOVE, but is'nt it great to have all those memories of your mother and home.


Katie

I just remembered last night where those new houses are being built was once Corbett's shop and the Newsroom where the men played billiards and snooker. The windows were painted over and no one could see in. As kids it attracted us we always wondered what went on behind them. It was also lit with gas until Tommy Hookes who moved into a house in Mill St ran an electric cable from his back scullery into it to illuminate the dart board.
Bucky Hughes was caretaker and Mark Miller chairman. Mark Miller was pay clerk in Glenmore Bleach Works and used to catch the 10,20am bus each Friday to the bank in Lisburn and withdrew the cash for the workers wages. He then came back with all that cash in a taxi. You could have set the clock by him he was so regular. Nothing ever happened all those years Unimagable today
Donald

Donald,
What do u think was the reason for that, no crime to speak of, the "guttie slipper man" was the only talking point as regards law breaking. Be interesting to hear your views & indeed the views of all the Forum. What happened to society.?
Pat

Hi all. Have to peel the potatoes soon so only on for a minute or two.

Watched a great old black and white movie this afternoon on TV. "Kitty Foyle" with Ginger Rogers. It was a drama/romance with my mother's favourite actor, Denis Morgan, as the co-lead.

I think that was the reason there wasn't as much crime in those days - good old harmless films, no violence except maybe John Wayne in a Western, shooting all round him!!

Seriously, though, I think the fact that people had no money or great clothes was a contributory factor to the lack of crime. Everyone was the same, plus the post-war era, when we were glad to be alive. We were too glad to have a good meal on the table. No TVs either. There was incest about, and I am not speaking from personal experience thank God, but people didn't speak about it, so there were no statistics from those years. It wasn't highlighted or published in the papers - people kept quiet because even though they were the victims, they were ashamed.

But then you can argue what about the awful cruelty at Autswich and other concentration camps? All those innocent men, women and children starved to death, for nothing.

I think it's all the violence on TV, violent computer games, violent films - it's all taken as the norm.

What do I know? Just a thought.
I think there's too much of everything nowadays - there's no struggle to meet ends meet, you can literally have whatever you like, albeit maybe on a credit card.

Youngsters have it all, designer this and designer that. I don't know what the reason is but I think that the violence on TV and films has a contribution to make.

Better get the spuds peeled.

Ann, Pat etc
I don't entirely agree with you that people have no trouble to make ends meet. I read some time ago the average debt PER PERSON in Norniron is around 36,000GBP!!! Mortgages not included If that is true then the problem is only being prolonged. The bubble has to burst sometime.
What you say about abuse and incest is true, it was swept below the mat ( we had no carpets in those days ),ill treatment, beatings by some fathers, clergy and schoolteachers was common. Also a big crime deterrent was the fear and shame of being " Summonsed"and reading about yourself or your family in the local newspaper, with all gory details told during the court proceedings and full name and address. We worried about what the neighbours thought.
Donald

Donald, re. the £36,000 that the average person owes in NI, excluding mortgage. I wouldn't believe that or else I live in a different world. Not doubting your word but maybe the newspaper you read.

As I say, I don't know, it may be right, but I find it very hard to believe.

Mind you, I wouldn't mind winning the Lotto!!!!!
I could buy Tescos!!

Sorry I meant € not GBP. Here is the report from the Telegraph from Nov 2006
Donald

Ulster families grappling with debts of £60m

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Thursday, November 30, 2006

By Brendan McDaid and Claire Weir

Hard-up Ulster families are grappling with debts totalling over £60m, the Belfast Telegraph can reveal today.

Hard-up Ulster families are grappling with debts totalling over £60m, the Belfast Telegraph can reveal today.

The Limavady-based Consumer Credit Counselling Service says it is currently dealing with a staggering £40m debt in Northern Ireland - adding that the size of the average debt is £23,000.

Warning that this is just scratching the surface, the agency said its current caseload - which will force it to double its staff in the New Year - is getting increasingly worse and does not include mortgages or bank loans.

Meanwhile, the Citizens' Advice Bureau today said its clients are facing debts of £19.8m and rising - already a 25% rise of £4m on last year's £15.9m figure, which does include mortgage debts.

Consumer Credit Counselling Service centre manager, Debbie Mills, said today that the £40m debt is just the tip of the iceberg as the figure only concerned debt accrued from catalogue, credit card and utility bills.

"Debt saddles all incomes and social groups," she said.

Ms Mills added that the Consumer Credit Counselling Service is now planning to double staffing levels in the New Year, as services have been stretched to cope with 75 new clients a week.

Ulster families in debt crisis: page 6

Quote from report:
“The Limavady-based Consumer Credit Counselling Service says it is currently dealing with a staggering £40m debt in Northern Ireland - adding that the size of the average debt is £23,000.”
==================================================


There is something not squaring on debt.

Assuming the figures to be accurate.
If the total debt is £40,000,000.00 and the average personal debt is £23,00.00, that £40M would be accrued by 1870 people.

Even if we take the figure at £60,000,000.00 that would still only be 2610 people

Since when did only that number of people live in NI.
There would appear to be a lot of space per person.

Methinks I smell a load of cow "claps".

Hi all, The old cow went "clap clap" against the wall.
"clap against the wall, "clap against the wall"
The old cow went "clap clap against the wall" and now the walls covered in "clap, clap, clap".

An old, dear departed friend of mine sang that at my pre-wedding party in June 1961.

I stand corrected, humble and penitent
Donald

Donald, don't apologise, you're one of the Low Road crowd, even though you're from Hilden. When did we ever apologise.? You're still one of us.!!!!