I well remember both Dermots.
Father opened the shop in Bap Row having worked in Stanahans in Railway Street.
Son Dermot also worked in Stranahans before he replaced his father in Bap Row.
Robin Belshaw was a quiet big lad whom I had the pleasure of knocking around with on Saturday nights for some years. The family had the end house, opposite the Orrs. It reamains in my memory for some reason that they had a cement path at the side of the house and a gate. Is this true?

Tom Scott who lived in the new houses in EDV was also part of that crowd.

Returning the the park.
I remember the almost manicured lawns on three sides of the park and playing croquet on the lawn nearest to the EMB.
No one thought of damaging the lawns or indeed the flower beds that bordered them.

Vandalism appears to be a relatively new phenomenon.
Or am I just old and blinkered.

LR

If you did any damage to the wee park when I was young it was reported in the mill and your parents were told. You got a good hiding then from your Da. I remember throwing my schoolbag onto a window sill in Hilden school and accidentally smashed the pane. Wee Waddy gave me six slaps with the cane, the glazier came from the mill and replaced it, the bill ( 7/6d ) was sent to my father, I got my ass kicked and the money was deducted from my pocket money. No messing about then.

As a boy I was daily trashed by my Dad, but it did not do me any harm, the opposite was the case. it taught me something, I learned from it. HOW TO EAT WITHOUT TEETH!
Have a nice day all
Donald

Donald
Child abuse includes whacking with a cane.

Dabbler,

Hubby, met Philip Lavery in the town yesterday,told him you were asking after him, Philip said he had'nt see you in years, he is playing bowls now. That is the first hubby has seen him in years and years and yet he lives in Lisburn


Katie

I'm going to be inundated with complaints I suppose BUT I believe that a good slap didn't do any harm.

It's got to the ridiculous now where parents cannot even give their child a smack. Yes, I know some people including teachers may have been taking their own frustrations out on the children but very few I'm sure.

The young ones now (I feel like I'm my mother) get away with everything. They're either deprived or have nowhere to play or can't afford the designer clothes.

When I was young, my mother got a cheque from a woman (forget her name) periodically. This was to buy clothes for us. She had to pay back with some interest. Everybody was in the same boat.

Anyway, whenever I was taken to Belfast to get a new coat or something, I never could get the coat I wanted as the cheque was made out for only a certain amount of money so I had to take whatever my mother could afford.

Having said all that, I do think there's more pressure on the young ones nowadays. When we were young, you made your own fun, running round the streets, playing ball (who do you see playing ball now?), skipping, hoops, tops and whips.

I suppose this generation will complain about the next one and so it goes on.

Just finished a lovely swee 'n sour (and me not allowing wee Rachel to have one) hubby had chicken curry, Rachel's in her nanny's and we have the house to ourselves for once except for the dogs. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh contentment - two old fogies ready for Emmerdale and Coronation Street.

Where did the old me go??????

Ann,

I agree with you, a slap never did anyone harm.

The news this morning young lads set fire to an Old peoples Bingo Hall, while the old people were inside, the police arrested two lads, now out on bail and will probably get community service, old people getting raped, beat up in their homes, who did that when we were
young, I certainly don't remember anyone doing things like that.

I remember cheeking a neighbour, while we were all out playing ball, I did'nt know my mother was watching, she hauled me in to the house and give me a hiding, then sent me over to the neighbour to apologize in front of the others and then kept me in the rest of the day.

Katie

Katie
Thanks for your news on Philip Lavery. Last time I saw him was in 1950, at school. The other Philip Lavery, Low Road, brother of Vera, son of Ginny, is he deceased?
I am totally against corporal punishment of children. Violence begets violence. It is repellant when dished out by a man to a weaker woman, or by a big child to a smaller, and even worse by an adult to a child, who has no option but to accept the pain. Parenting lessons should be compulsory for anyone who cannot rear, train, and control children from infancy to adolescence without resorting to displaying their superior physical strength.

Dabbler,

Philip Lavery (Low Road, died a lot of years ago in his sister's home in Florida, he was a cousin of Ann's.

I disagree with you on a slap, I still think a slap never does any harm, so we will beg to differ.

Britain and here has lost control, as I go to London every year maybe twice, I can see the change over the years, scary in some areas walking about, I know that can be in most cities, but here at home is nearly as bad, young ones running around shouting for no reason, though again I say a minority.

Katie

Dabbler, I agree with Katie, who agrees with me. A slap didn't do any harm. If you didn't behave out of respect, you did it out of fear of a slap.

What about the children now who bully their parents and teachers? Not to mention even worse crimes against the very elderly? What is the punishment?

I think the young get away with a lot, not all of them of course, but there's no deterrent for them now.

Again, I'll be hauled over the coals for this, BUT I think a stint in National Service would teach them discipline.

Hubby says put them in Boot Camp, he said he mucked about in his young days, but would'nt think of hurting elderly people or did'nt know anyone who would.


Katie

Ann
I refer you to the Boys School thread.

Dabbler, Philip Lavery (deceased) was my cousin. Ginny Tallon was my father's sister and used to visit Lisburn every year even she had had a stroke. She brought up a young family in a house on McConnell's Hill before moving to West Hartlepool in England.

Philip was an awful man. My father wasn't a drinker. He would have had a bottle of stout with a sandwich, something like that. However, one day he met Philip in Lisburn. Philip liked a drink and, as they were standing outside one of the pubs, Philip invited my father in for a drink. When the drinks were ordered, Philip says, "Uncle Joe, I have no money". My father wasn't too pleased as he was decent himself and wouldn't have done that on anyone. But, that was Philip, RIP.

One time, when he was living at home because he and his wife had had a row, he came back from the pub, the worse for wear, wakened his mother, and announced, "I think I go and take a header into the Canal". His mother, my aunt Aggie, who was no softie, says, "Wait a wee minute 'til I put on my coat and I'll come with you".

Big brother has loads sof stories about Philip at Hilden School - he was always a scamp.

God help him, he died shortly after arriving in Miami, in his sister's house, where they were all enjoying a bit of craic. I remember the big American casket in which he was buried. His body was brought back to Lisburn and he's buried in Holy Trinity Cemetery. The first and only time I saw a "coffin" where the top could lift back, showing the deceased's face.

Hope this doesn't upset anyone, it's not meant to.

Ann,

I remember going to Philip's R.I.P. house, when his remains were brought back from Miami,his younger brother Gerald was also home, and saw the big
American casket, and saying afterwards to sweetie, that casket is beautiful and safer than a wooden one.

Sweetie, looked at me and said, safe from what'

Poor Philip,he was'nt old when he died,I knew his wife well, I spoke to his daughter and her husband in church the other Sunday.

Katie

Philip Lavery,s brother Gerald still lives in Miami I think. When I was over last year Gabriel Kerr,s brother in law Gerry McClinton told me he was talking to him some time ago. Didn,t they both work in the building trade? Gerald went to Hilden School same time as me or am I getting old?
Donald

Donald, you really must pay attention. Gerald Lavery was the boy who collapsed in the middle of the eating competition in Hilden school. I mentioned it earlier in Memories of Hilden Wee Park I think.

Gerald is also my cousin, as was the late Vera. Gerald was quite small but wiry. I remember the time he and his wife (was her name Alana?) and family were emigraing to Florida. I think they had 3 small children then. I thought it was an awful big step then but they made good. A lifetime ago.

Dabbler, Vera's mother was called Aggie. My father and Aggie's husband were two brothers. Ginny was my aunt. I bet you had your eye on some of my cousins when they were over from England on holiday.

Vera Lavery married Walter King from Kilwarin, they lived in Bap Row and had twin boys?

Donald, they did live originally in East Down View and, yes, they had two lovely twin boys - Philip and Tom. While they were in East Down View they had another son Noel, who died aged 8 months.

Eventually Vera and Walter moved to Lawnmount Crescent. While there poor wee Philip was killed in a car crash. He was a passenger in a car which struck a tree. They had a girl Marie, who is a nurse and who moved to Florida years ago. They had another son Michael who was very academic and he also moved to Florida. They had another daughter, Veronica, who still lives here and who is married with one girl, also very academic I believe. They had another son, Gary. Gary was very clever too, went on to grammar school, played rugby for the school and is now in the fire service. He's a real hunk. He is also married - I don't see Gary often so don't know much about him, where he lives, etc. BU, he always recognises me and comes over when I do see him. Vera would be so proud of her family. She had a very hard life She had no health after the twins were born and things just deteriorated for her, BUT she always kept smiling.

Hope I didn't leave anyone out in that list. Walter is still alive and lives in the Low Road.

Ann, that is interesting; the history of the Laverys, I mean. How was Ginnie related to Aggie, and which had auburn hair?

Ginny Tallon (nee Lavery) was one of my father's sisters. I imagine Ginny had auburn hair, as did my father and as I did also. Ginny was very good looking and had a big family who were all dying about her.

Aggie married my father's brother, Phil. She was Vera's mother and Gerald and Philip and Tommy and May's mother also.

There was another sister of my father's, Rose, who had red hair. I was supposed to be like her when I was younger, in temperament. She was full of life and would do anything. She lived in Belfast.

My father had two more brothers - Charlie and John who also lived in Belfast. They were all in the services.

Thanks, Ann. I can confirm that, when I was a teenager, I thought Ginny was a very attractive woman.

Dabbler, you should have had your eyes on the daughters. Various daughters used to come over - the one I knew best was Rosie as she was around my age. I was only 15 but already working in the newspaper office. Anyway, I used to borrow Rosie's clothes for work when she was here; they were lovely, and she didn't mind. I thought she was very sophisticated with her English accent. She used to bring a chum also.

I particularly remember a green, flared skirt which I wore so proudly to the office.

One time I had arranged to meet a teddy boy, who I had met on the Isle of Man boat. He came up from Belfast on the train to Lisburn.

Rosie came with me and the 3 of us walked about the town all that evening. I'm sure he was disappointed but that's the only way I could get out.

Ann: Vera, if she were still 'with us' , would tell you that I was a nice young man, a bit older than her, whom she liked a lot. Even today, I am sad at the thought of her traumas and death.

Dabbler, Vera was a beautiful singer. That was around the time of Guy Mitchell, etc. she had a lovely voice. Vera and I used to go to the Children's Mass at 9.30 am. When we were walking home, we used to meet Vera's mother, Aggie, who would stop and say to Vera "Get you home and get those bedrooms cleaned". I, God help me, used to help Vera to clean up. My poor mother never asked us to do anything and we didn't. Vera had a hard oul life but she brought up a great family.

Ann
Thanks.
Goodnight.

Dabbler, you're in bed early tonight. I'll be going shortly myself so night night all. Rachel will be back here tomorrow. My daughter, husband and family arrive here about 1.30 pm from Dublin Airport. Rachel wants to stay here another night so no problem. What's another night (as Johnny what's his name said).