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Kevan Taylor-Perry
Jun 21, 08 - 7:35 PM |
Interesting Incident in Israel
I read an article on the news today about some Messianic Jews in Israel saying they're being targeted for persecution---and wrose---in Israel. They claim the ultra-Orthodox are targeting them. In the worst example, someone dropped off a Semtex Purim basket on one family's porch and when they opened it, ka-boom city. A 15 year old teen was injured. Evidently, the Orthodox are taking a lesson from Hamas and dropping off festive nail bombs for the holidays. The Orthodox also took a page from Der Fuehrer and burned a stack of messianic books in one city. This was organized by the mayor of that town, who lead his citizens in that display affirming rule of law and tolerance, LOL.
Now, these Messianic Jews are gaining the most traction from Russians, Ethiopians, and mixed families in Israel. Not surprising, seeing as how they are the most disenfranchised groups in Israel.
Ok, here's how I see this.
First, these messianic Jews need to knock off the prosyletizing if that's what they're doing. One of them admits he prosyletizes among Palestinians. He's asking to turn up with his head on the end of a jihadi's khyber knife. There are Palestinian Christians, but they like to keep a low profile and don't need the publicity. But prosyletizing among Jews is also asking for trouble. That does NOT justify the Chasidim sending semtex gift baskets, however. If anything, it reveals that the Orthodox willing to do that are the reverse side of the coin Hamas is on. In fact, maybe they trade tips and share advice on construction of nail bombs. Maybe they'll colaborate on a book: "The Idiot's Guide To Booby-Traps, Nail Bombs, and Explosive Vests". The police did say the "gag" Purim basket that almost blew this kid's foot off and cost him his hearing used a plastique explosive the Palestinians don't have access to and was more sophisticated than one they'd make. Yeah, probably because making semtex into kosher peanut brittle takes the right touch.
That said, there's no room for converts unless they're unhappy in the religion they're in at the time. And that brings me to my next point. The Orthodox did not accept the unique traditions and the rabbis of Ethiopian Jews. The Orthodox do not accept Russian Jews for the most part and love to run around saying patrilineals are not Jews. So what the hell did they expect?! Of course messianic Jews are going to win them over! Perhaps if the Orthodox would pull their collective head out of their collective fourth point of contact and ACCEPT these people as Jews, these people would not be so hot to join Jews For Jesus. Hel-LO! Messianic Judaism lets them be accepted as Jews. Perhaps the Orthodox ought to keep that in mind the next time they want to smugly determine who is a Jew.
Finally, the ultra-Orthodox have NO PROBLEM taking money from American right-wing Christian Armeggedonists like the Rev. John Hagee. Gosh, what's the difference between those Christians and Messianic Jews? AH! I know! MONEY! Hagee brings COLD, HARD CASH to the settlers and the other Orthodox folks whose hobbies are taking potshots at Palestinian olive growers and dropping off Purim baskets that go over with a bang. This is simply hypocrisy.
Ya know, Christians should not prosyletize in Israel. Or the Islamic countries. It's a bad idea. In the Middle East, they peg American Christian missionaries the minute they land at the airport. The fatwa boys follow them and find out who among them are infidels. After the Americans leave, they enforce sharia and whack them. They learned this from the KGB who did the same shtick in the USSR to root out the Baptists and ship them off to gulags and psychiatric hospitals. American missionaries get and have gotten a lot of people killed all over the globe. But for Israelis to start sending nail bombs, well, how can they then criticize the Palestinians? Hamas wants the same thing they do: The "infidels" off their land!
I don't know, you'd think three religions could share a land they all think is holy and leave one another ALONE! Have some hummus together and don't talk religion! If they intermarry, let the kids decide what they want to be!
I'm definitely not a Christian. Again, these people should not be prosyletizing. But the Orthodox drive people right into their churches. Way to go, guys! If the patrilineals aren't Jews, then why do they have a problem with them being Christians? This is why the Orthodox shoot Judaism in the foot.
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Robin Margolis
Jun 22nd, 2008 - 7:46 PM |
Re: Interesting Incident in Israel
Dear Friends:
Today I saw an article on the controversy that Kevan was discussing.
I was sorry to read that the teenage Messianic Jew who was injured by a bomb apparently planted by an Orthodox Jew, was the adult child of a Jewish mother and a Christian Latino father, who is the pastor of the local Messianic Jewish community.
They made aliyah under the Law of Return, as the mother could prove that she was a Jew.
Obviously, I strongly object to such repulsive behavior as planting a bomb in a Purim basket. G-d will severely punish the person who did that, who was probably an Orthodox Jew.
The Messianic Jewish congregation has now hired an armed guard to protect their services. It is a disgrace that this was even necessary.
On the other hand -- why on earth did the young man's Messianic Jewish family opt to live in the West Bank -- home to fanatically Jewish Orthodox armed settlers who constantly encroach on Palestinian land -- and then the young man's father -- a pastor -- actively evangelizes Jews and Arabs for Messianic Judaism?
That poor boy's parents need to become realistic. Maybe they don't mind being martyred for Christ/Yeshua, as they might view it, but why endanger their son with them?
Cordially,
Robin
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Kevan Taylor-Perry
Jun 22nd, 2008 - 8:06 PM |
Re: Interesting Incident in Israel
Indeed, I can't understand the thinking either. I do not support prosyletizing in any way. As a Pagan, I believe each follows the God(s)(esses) to whom he/she feels closest. I do not see the need to convince others to follow my Gods. Nor do I find it respectful for others to do so to me. In fact, I just had to warn a co-worker that one more email from her about Jesus will result in an EEOC complaint.
As a Jew who does hold with some Jewish traditions, I find it also very disrespectful for Christians to prosyletize to us. It's rude and tactless.
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Robin Margolis
Jun 22nd, 2008 - 9:27 PM |
Re: Interesting Incident in Israel
Dear Kevan:
That's why I tend to think of Messianic Judaism as being closer to Christianity on the theological spectrum -- their missionary work is from a Christian perspective, that they must spread the Gospel -- whether the groups that live around them are keen on hearing it or not.
I can understand why you had to put your foot down with your co-worker.
But I felt so bad for that poor boy -- he was in an Israeli athletic team, and a perfectly nice kid -- now he has part of his foot gone, and has lost part of his hearing. And his brother is serving in the IDF.
Cordially,
Robin
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Iron of Zion
Jun 22nd, 2008 - 11:36 PM |
Re: Interesting Incident in Israel
I don't agree with Messianic Judaism at all, but bombing them is just plain disgusting. I hope that Israeli Jews are outraged by this because they'd sure as hell be outraged if Christians/Muslims bombed synagogues.
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Kevan Taylor-Perry
Jun 23rd, 2008 - 6:33 AM |
Re: Interesting Incident in Israel
For the Orthodox to steal a move from the Hamas playbook speaks volumes about them. Where are the Orthodox speaking out and saying they do not agree with bombing children? They sure don't hesitate to wave the bloody shirt when they lose someone to a bomb or Hamas gunman.
But look at the Rubashkins in Postville, Iowa who got raided by the feds. They had 400 illegal aliens working there in that kosher slaughterhouse, meaning they were paying them below minimum wage (that's why they hire illegals in agribusiness.) They were also mistreating and abusing the workers. But the meat was kosher! Again, following a didactic rule but forgetting the entire spirit. People want kosher, but don't want to show menschenkeit and pay people a wage they can live on and treat them like human beings?! And free-range, organic meat from fair-trade companies usually costs less than kosher, too.
I suppose the Orthodox will justify the nail bomb the same way the extremists among them justified the assassination of Rabin.
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JennyRose
Jun 27th, 2008 - 12:16 PM |
Re: Interesting Incident in Israel
I thought of Rabin as soon as I started reading.
What are Messianic Jews? Do you mean Chabad Lubavitch and SchneersohN? I understand his followers do not recognize him as dead. Or do you mean something like Jews for Jesus? I would have to say any group who believes in Jesus as their savior is Christian.
I too agree that the religous sales people ought to quit. I think (and anyone correct me if I am wrong) that Jesus orderd his followers to "preach and to teach" and that some sects feel duty bound to do so.
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Iron of Zion
Jun 27th, 2008 - 4:36 PM |
Re: Interesting Incident in Israel
Jenny Rose,
Messianic Jews are people (both Jewish and Gentile) who believe that Jesus (they use his Hebrew name Yeshua) is the Jewish messiah and that Messianic Judaism is "complete" or "fulfilled" Judaism. You mentioned Jews for Jesus and I know for a fact that many Messianics try to distance themselves from Jews for Jesus because they think they're "too Baptist" and don't practice Judaism as fully as they should. A lot of Messianiacs practice Judaism as strictly as an Orthodox Jew.
But yes you're right, they are Christians and while they may be culturally Jewish and while they may celebrate Jewish holidays they are not practicing Judaism. Jews in the Messianic movement are apostates.
The only thing the Messianics got right is their "Who is a Jew" policy. They believe, for tradition's sake, that the child of a Jewish mother is a Jew, but they also believe a child of a Jewish father can claim a Jewish identify (thus being less stringent than the Reform movement's policy of a child of Jewish father having to be raised Jewish, which is of course something that may be hard to judge in some circumstances).
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Kevan Taylor-Perry
Jun 29th, 2008 - 3:27 PM |
Re: Interesting Incident in Israel
I can't see the value in people proselytizing. I believe in consensual religious universalism, as long as it is respectful. In other words, if someone invited me to a mosque once with no pressure to convert and they wouldn't be in there slamming others, I'd be fine with going just to "be" and see. I'll go to Buddhist ceremonies. We learn from one another and that's how we learn what makes us more similar than dissimilar. I mean, did you know the Bedouin have a type of Passover and make Sukkot boothes? Right there, we Jews were probably Bedouin thousands of years ago.
The problem with Jews for Jesus is the implication there that Jews are going to hell if we don't believe in Jesus. The thing is, there have been MANY people that were thought to be Moschiach over time. The Rebbe Schneerson is only the latest. In fact, I heard there's a webcam on his grave to see the exact moment he pops out to assume Moschiachship or whatever. There's also a bit of the whole John Hagee poppycock about "We like Jews as long as they're not TOO Jewish and act as our tools." My adoptive mom is now asking me things like, "How come you Jews don't believe in such-and-such..." What, I'm BORN knowing this?! I actually learned a lot about Judaism BEFORE I found out I was Jewish, LOL! I wasn't born with a silver kiddush cup in my mouth, ar ar ar;-)
But to run around IN Israel and start up this claptrap there is disrespectful. BUT---the Orthodox are just ASKING for this by marginalizing Ethiopians, Russians, and the patrilineals. It is the Orthodox who ought to be out there winning these folks over fro Judaism or at least inviting in some Reform temples to make room. Historically, it is entirely possible Christianity started originally as a protest against Orthodox practices. And maybe not enough Jews left to form a large enough group, so then they started looking outside Judaism for followers. The Romans were certainly a huge embarrassment to Paganism, what with cults to emperors and so forth. So, there were a lot of disillusioned former Pagans to draw from.
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Robin Margolis
Jul 1st, 2008 - 12:25 AM |
Re: Interesting Incident in Israel
Dear Jenny Rose:
Chabad Lubavitch is a Hasidic Jewish group, which appeared in 18th century Eastern Europe as part of the great religous revival among the Jews.
They were the first Orthodox group in modern times to do outreach to unaffiliated Jews, and have outreach missions all over the world.
To this day, they are much friendlier to non-Orthodox Jews than most Hasidic Jewish groups.
Chabad's last great rebbe, Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneersohn, zl" (zichrono livracha, may his memory be for a blessing or of blessed memory), died in the early 1990s. He was the creator of the outreach policy.
Some of his followers, after his death, came to believe that the Rebbe (as he is fondly called) was the messiah, and thereby split Chabad in two.
Some segments of Chabad believe that he was the messiah -- other segments do not, and are embarassed by their colleagues' belief.
The Rebbe himself did not believe that he was the messiah -- when one of his followers in Israel threw pamphlets from an airplane in Israel, which described the Rebbe as the messiah, the Rebbe made the man walk all over Israel picking every one of them up -- it took several months.
While I disagree with some of the Rebbe's conservative political views and his support of matrilineal descent, he was unquestionably a great spiritual leader.
Full Disclosure: I am a student of Chabad writings, and a big admirer of the Rebbe. I have sometimes donated money to their work (the non-messiah wing of their movement, as I do not believe that the Rebbe was the Messiah.)
If you would like to learn more about the Rebbe, here are some useful links:
The Rebbe and his life:
http://www.chabad.org/therebbe/default_cdo/jewish/The-Rebbe.htm
Free, online videos of the Rebbe teaching (with English subtitles):
http://www.chabad.org/multimedia/livingtorah_cdo/aid/42100/jewish/Living-Torah.htm
I have watched many hours of these videos, especially the ones where he greeted and counseled long lines of spiritual seekers from all kinds of Jewish backgrounds, and some non-Jews as well.
I was struck by his enormous spiritual and psychological perception and compassion.
While I don't know about any webcam on his grave, it is an ancient custom among many Orthodox Jewish groups to leave a kvittle (written message asking for help) on the grave of a great rabbi or a Jewish holy woman.
Chabad has an email link (free of charge) for sending kvittles to the Rebbe's grave (called an "ohel" in Hebrew):
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/36247/jewish/The-Ohel.htm
It's like leaving a paper message in the Kotel (Western Wall) in Jerusalem.
I have sent two kvittles to the Rebbe's grave in the last few years, and did receive help, as did a sick friend of mine who was in very dire illness and financial distress.
The www.chabad.org website is a rich source of free online books and videos about ancient Jewish traditions, from which I have learned a lot.
While I am not Orthodox, so I do not accept everything on the Chabad website as true for me, I owe them a huge debt of gratitude for opening the riches of their traditions to anyone who wishes to view.
I believe that anyone wishing to learn more about Judaism would enjoy their website. Their short films on how to perform various Jewish rituals ("The Deed") are a joy.
Many other Hasidic groups remain closed off to the rest of the world, and keep their very rich traditions to themselves, which is a great loss to the rest of us.
The only other Hasidic group that shares much of its traditions with the non-Orthodox are the Breslovers, the followers of Rabbi Nachman of Breslov, zl".
One of their best websites is:
http://www.breslov.org/
Cordially,
Robin
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Benny G
Jul 1st, 2008 - 8:21 AM |
Re: Interesting Incident in Israel
I am on the Chabad mailing list - They send out weekly spiritual guidance which I have often found to be of great substance.
They were a controversial force at my university, as they did not attend the Jewish society but rather invited people to the Chabad society meetings
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JennyRose
Jul 1st, 2008 - 12:26 PM |
Re: Interesting Incident in Israel
I took my MIL to the Mayo clinic and I was quite touched to see a Chabad house on the main street. If ever people need comfort, it is those who need the Mayon clinic and their families.
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Robin Margolis
Jul 1st, 2008 - 12:48 PM |
Re: Interesting Incident in Israel
Dear Benny G and Jenny Rose:
Benny G: a buddy of mine in NYC with disabilities not only sent in two kivittles to the Rebbe's ohel when things got very bad financially and emotionally, and got rapid help,but like you, she signed onto the free Chabad daily emails, which she also found very consoling.
You are correct that sometimes Chabad likes to let the rest of us know that -- well -- they are somewhat more legitimate -- in their view -- than the non-Orthodox.
But ordinarily they much politer than many of the Hasidic Orthodox.
Jenny Rose: here is something very odd. Before you posted your email, I casually opened a book by the Rebbe, saying, "is there a message today from the Rebbe for the Half-Jewish Network?" -- this is an old Chabad custom, to "ask the Rebbe" in this manner -- and here's where the book fell open:
"150. Miracles and Doctors
Firm confidence in G-d can peform miracles of healing. Nevertheless, you should still follow the instructions of the doctor.
Not that it is the doctor or his medicine that heals -- it is the Healer of All Flesh who heals.
But the doctor and the medicine provide a natural channel for the healing to occur, and this is the way. G-d prefers His miracles to work -- through natural means."
(from "Bringing Heaven Down to Earth: 365 Meditations from the wisdom of the Rebbe Menachem M. Schneerson".)
I wondered -- why on earth would I be posting a message about doctors on the Half-Jewish Network message board? -- and as I opened the Half-Jewish Network message board, I saw the post about taking your mother-in-law to the Mayo Clinic. :)
Cordially,
Robin
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